Do you run a tedder?

Do you do any alfalfa?

9’ wide mower I take it?

 

Do you run a tedder? Yes

Do you do any alfalfa? No

9’ wide mower I take it? Yes

 

I've utilized my H&S Hi-cap bi-fold 14 wheel for nearly 20 yrs. I rake three 9'3'' swathes that are cut with a Krone AM283S disk cutter. I rake & bale opposite direction of cutting direction. If my rake is spread as wide as it will go it will rake 3 &1/2 swathes but then making level bales is a problem. I can lock one side up & rake with other side. IRRC I locked my rake wheels up twice since I purchased my rake. I can alter my windrow width by raising transport tires on 1 side & turning adjustment crank on rear pipe frame of rake. Weave on windrow is only minimally required & I see no need for kicker wheels in my operation as minimum cut hay is left in field.

I have yet attempted to rake a field that rake didn't complete. I noticed the other day that a new H&S rake costs over twice what I paid for my new rake in 2002

 

Weave on windrow is only minimally required & I see no need for kicker wheels in my operation as minimum cut hay is left in field.

Kicker would be for the dry hay just to move it around. We use the rotary's now to finish drying the hay, removing the dew. When we rake windrows together with rotary we make sure all the hay gets moved. I can't imagine imagine dumping 2 windrows on top of the 3rd and not stirring it. We sometimes will tedd the morning of raking to fluff it so we can start raking and baling couple hours earlier. If left untouched we could start raking at 11-12 and the hay would be damp feeling and ground underneath wet.

If I were in your position, I would look at a powered bar rake. I have used both that and wheel rakes extensively and for your needs a powered bar rake would be a better choice. Unfortunately it will be costly to get to a 30’ coverage as only Twin Star offers a rake that wide to my knowledge. Vermeer offers a 28’ and 23’ model. In my experience, the powered bar rake is better able to rake wet hay. We used to use Vermeer Twin Rakes to rake in front of a silage chopper with crop at 60%+ moisture. I also found that a bar rake made a better windrow than a wheel rake in thin crop.

I don't think I see me switching from rotary's to a powered bar rake but maybe I should just to be the talk of the neighborhood. None in this area but neither is a big wheel rake.

I could not agree more… just send that little double Kuhn rotary to me in Illinois and buy whatever you want lol..

You will be the first to know if it comes available.


Some more on our procedures. The baleage doesn't get tedded. Not sure what my windrow widths are flat. Have always wanted to measure. Also depends how the mowers are ran as they lay it out different and are usually ran in tandem. Cut is 9'9". Round baler is 4ft wide with wide pickup. Not worried about thin crop that can be dealt with. My focus is in 1st cutting where that isn't an issue.

In reading through these replies maybe dropping the width down to 20'?? would be better and just take 2 but then I wonder if that would be enough to fill the baler efficiently. If baler did not have wide pickup I think that would be the way to go.

Did anybody go from having rotary rakes to wheel rakes and were happy they made the switch?

 

The goal you want is a windrow that is wider than the baler chamber by a couple inches and uniform across its width.

What I have found is thin crop (or teddered in your case) will tend to rope up so tight as the rake moves it that it doesn’t open back up when the crop exits the rear of the rake. The result is a poor drying windrow that makes what I call a “double bubble” bale. This might not be so obvious with a 4’ wide baler as with 5’. Traveling faster with the rake will help mitigate this, and it won’t be as bad a problem in grass as alfalfa.

IF you didn’t run a tedder, you would be able to rake 3 windrows on one with a rake of approximately 25-26’ operating width. A 14 wheel rake would be in that area. Since you do run a tedder you would need a rake that has a operating width of at least as wide as the width yo want to rake. To get 30’ you would need at least a 16 wheel rake. I have a 20 wheel rake and it is over kill for 30’ in easy to rake crop, just right in harder to rake crop.

If you want to do baleage, especially at 50% moisture you will need to pretty picky about what wheel rake you buy. Wet crop rakes hard. For baleage, I would look only at the rakes that use a rubber mounted tine with a raking wheel that is tipped out at the top.

If I were in your position, I would look at a powered bar rake. I have used both that and wheel rakes extensively and for your needs a powered bar rake would be a better choice. Unfortunately it will be costly to get to a 30’ coverage as only Twin Star offers a rake that wide to my knowledge. Vermeer offers a 28’ and 23’ model. In my experience, the powered bar rake is better able to rake wet hay. We used to use Vermeer Twin Rakes to rake in front of a silage chopper with crop at 60%+ moisture. I also found that a bar rake made a better windrow than a wheel rake in thin crop.

I know a hay producer in west central PA that is using a Vermeer R2300 for all his raking requirements. He does some baleage and uses a tedder.

Regarding raking speed -- most times I run my wheel rake in the 8 mph range in grass hay. There is an inverse relationship in crop weight and speed requirement for a wheel rake to make the best windrow. The lighter the crop, the faster the rake needs to travel to get a good windrow structure.

 

The goal you want is a windrow that is wider than the baler chamber by a couple inches and uniform across its width.

What I have found is thin crop (or teddered in your case) will tend to rope up so tight as the rake moves it that it doesn’t open back up when the crop exits the rear of the rake. The result is a poor drying windrow that makes what I call a “double bubble” bale. This might not be so obvious with a 4’ wide baler as with 5’. Traveling faster with the rake will help mitigate this, and it won’t be as bad a problem in grass as alfalfa.

IF you didn’t run a tedder, you would be able to rake 3 windrows on one with a rake of approximately 25-26’ operating width. A 14 wheel rake would be in that area. Since you do run a tedder you would need a rake that has a operating width of at least as wide as the width yo want to rake. To get 30’ you would need at least a 16 wheel rake. I have a 20 wheel rake and it is over kill for 30’ in easy to rake crop, just right in harder to rake crop.

If you want to do baleage, especially at 50% moisture you will need to pretty picky about what wheel rake you buy. Wet crop rakes hard. For baleage, I would look only at the rakes that use a rubber mounted tine with a raking wheel that is tipped out at the top.

If I were in your position, I would look at a powered bar rake. I have used both that and wheel rakes extensively and for your needs a powered bar rake would be a better choice. Unfortunately it will be costly to get to a 30’ coverage as only Twin Star offers a rake that wide to my knowledge. Vermeer offers a 28’ and 23’ model. In my experience, the powered bar rake is better able to rake wet hay. We used to use Vermeer Twin Rakes to rake in front of a silage chopper with crop at 60%+ moisture. I also found that a bar rake made a better windrow than a wheel rake in thin crop.

I know a hay producer in west central PA that is using a Vermeer R2300 for all his raking requirements. He does some baleage and uses a tedder.

Regarding raking speed -- most times I run my wheel rake in the 8 mph range in grass hay. There is an inverse relationship in crop weight and speed requirement for a wheel rake to make the best windrow. The lighter the crop, the faster the rake needs to travel to get a good windrow structure.

In reading through this I may as well continue with my rotary rakes and deal with their shortcomings as it doesn’t sound like I’ll be any more happier with a wheel rake.

I have considered double rotary center delivery for reasons stated above. Guess was hoping for something little less mechanical in nature and thought a wheel rake was the way to go.

 

I rake a lot of 50-60% moisture baleage with a wheel rake and don't have any issues.

 

I have run about every style of wheel rake there is from 3 point on, get the Hi-Capacity type they do the best in all situations. I pull mine at 5-6 miles per hour and it does great. One word of caution if you lay it out flat during mowing get a 10 wheel for a 9 Ft. mower and a 12 for a 10 Ft. mower. Mine is a 10 wheel and have a 10 Ft mower it is barely enough to cover two swaths layed flat.

 

I mow with a 12' mower laying a 8~9' swath out the back. I double them into the dry ground between the morning before baling. In a good crop the rake is set to leave a 5' wide square shouldered windrow perfect for a 7' pickup on a 4' baler. In super thin crops I will end up with two little windrows not touching and bales that look like an hourglass. In that situation I either narrow the rake to leave a narrow windrow and weave with the baler or rake 2 into 1 and then double those up making 4 into 1.

 

My rake is a 12 wheel kuhn sr300 I really like it because I can rake just one cutter pass or two or if it's been tedded open it up and get the full 24 or so feet. It handles baleage and dry grass hay great and adjustments are super easy. Like Jim I have never seen any roping but then I would never dream of running the rake more than a few minutes ahead of the baler. With our weather down here the baler better catch the rake before you quit or the hay on the ground will get wet and soggy over night. Also on the topic of "a thin crop" if it ain't making close to 3 rolls of 4x5 an acre I am waiting for it to grow. The picture of the bahia grass field was took 2 days after bailing the farthest field from me is 10 acres middle field is 5. All of the fields on that farm make close to 10 bales per cutting normally 4 times a year.

 

Watched video of the SR300. Very intriguing with lots of available options including the splitter wheels. Question on the baleage side. Have you attempted heavy wet crops with it? Sorghum/Sudan, oats, millet really anything that doesn't dry down as much as grass. I would still have a rotary but if it handles it good that would be a bonus.

 

JOR Farm
That's impressive Bahia hay bale production per acre. What type Bahia? The Bahia in my area doesn't produce that well. Does the Bahia in your area remain green in bale or turn dark similar to my locale? Several custom balers in my area have tractor/rake/baler combinations. I would get that combo if I wasn't in the twilight of my custom baling career.

 

That farm is tifton 9 what makes it so good is the 8 chicken houses you can't quite see in the picture. If you were to take a soil sample when they saw how high the phosphorus and potash was my granddad would be in trouble. I put around 200# of 32-0-0 after each cutting. As far as the color it browns outer edges but stays nice and green inside, not quite as pretty as coastal Bermuda. That rake baler combo is awesome a father/daughter farm near me has one she rakes and bales by herself like me only she gets a lot more baled in a day.

 

I feel the time has come to start considering a rake upgrade

I could not agree more… just send that little double Kuhn rotary to me in Illinois and buy whatever you want lol..

 

IH 1586
Come to semi-arid Texas & you can witness 2 swathes raked on the top of an undisturbed swath then round baled shortly thereafter. BTDT on 1000's of rd bales.

 

If I did that I wouldn't want to go back to making hay here. Not sure I can take the heat for a whole summer though but I have enjoyed my time there. Working at the King Ranch and visiting mom's uncle in Pearland.

 

If we don't get some significant rain soon there won't be much hay to rake/bale in my area. I've decided to begin buying some rd bales BUT more intelligent thing to do would be sell my livestock.

 

Heat isn't a problem as long as tractor/pickup /home AC continues to operate correctly.

 

I went from a Kuhn 3pt rotary and Pequea HR1140 to a single Pequea MCR12 a
wheel rake and haven't looked back once. I rake more acres with less labor in a shorter time with a piece of equipment that is cheaper to maintain.

 

The only baleage I have ever made with it was some really thick clover and it did real good raking two 11' cutter passes together. I have done a few thousand bales of sudangrass with it but all was tedded several times and put up dry. Most of it was really rank so I only opened it up to about 15 feet, enough to make a square 4x5 roll but not so much to drag a bunch of dirt with it.

 

If it can handle that I really don't see any issues with what 'm doing. The video was 10 years old that I watched and they now offer it with 14 wheels now.

 

I really wish mine had the center kicker wheels even if I left them up 90% of the time I feel like the few times I needed them they would pay for themselves. I have been thinking about adding them and the bar extensions to make it 14 wheel or rather 16 wheels altogether for awhile. You can leave them locked up in good hay and let them down if you get some thin stuff.

 

On the Kuhn SR300 14 wheel rep said $24000 is a good place to start as prices are not stable. He said if I had an order I might see one this year and if I didn't might not see one next year.



Everything I have read on the Kuhn site says you can upgrade in the field from 10 -12 wheels however you can't upgrade 12-14. I don't know just what I read.

 

One of the major advantages to a bi-fold hi-capacity rake is in heavier hay one can just move hyd control lever to lessen raking width & this also causes rake wheel angles to be more aggressive increasing rake wheels ability to handle thicker hay.

 

I would agree very much with this. And it’s not just in heavy hay that the variable raking width is handy.

 

The downfall of the hi-capacity rake is the cost. Last I checked an H&S 12 wheel High capacity rake was near 20k, and at that time I paid 6600 for my 12 wheel "mid capacity" rake.

The few advantages of the high capacity rake didn't warrant 3x the cost for me.

 

New rake cost is obscene. Back in 2009 I bought a brand new in the crate Vermeer WRX12 12 wheel high capacity rake for $8300. At that time used wheel rakes were overpriced. Sold it in favor of a used 16 wheel Rowse WR16. Sold that one after buying a wore out and bent WR20. Put all new tines and rings on that one and still had less than 10 grand in it. Probably made more than 40,000 5x6 rounds behind that rake, mostly cornstalks and bean straw. It’s to a point were it needs more TLC but a new replacement like it is probably north of $35,000 now, plus the one I have is somewhat modified to suit my needs.

 

I hadn't really investigated it that close I just figured since the tongue and wing sections bolted together I would have to add the other pieces plus the wing gauge wheels it figured they would become a necessity that wide. I picked mine up off craigslist for $2500 it's not that old frame is in good shape but all the original rake wheels were worn enough to be spitting out teeth, I replaced all 12 at the same time and JD parts man cut me a deal so I guess you could say it really cost me about $3700 plus a hydraulic hose that came untied and got drug a ways. I saw another one for sale awhile back I'll see if it's still around. Messicks has a sr612 for 13000 and that is way better than mine it has the hy capacity wheels like those bad a$$ h&s rakes.

 

that is way better than mine it has the hy capacity wheels like those bad a$$ h&s rakes.

When I replace complete rake wheels I utilize Kuhn black rake wheels on my H&S high capacity rake. My custom baler neighbor advised me Kuhn teeth last longer than H&S teeth & I think he's correct.

 

Just for curiosity sake if one wanted to try out a wheel rake and not go all in how does this look for an impulse buy. I'm expecting price to double and $3/mile trucking and it is about 1000 miles. I got access to manual and reading it.

https://www.auctiontime.com/listings/farm-equipment/auctions/online/211656209/2009-vermeer-wrx14

I did read some past threads on here and one in particular there was talk between gearclash and swmnhay about the ability to get heavier wheels beefing it up.

 

IH 1586
What will be your most difficult crop to rake? Yrs ago I agreed to bale a crop that had tall blood weeds & was worried my H&S rake wouldn't handle the tall weeds. It handled the weeds & I've never encountered a crop it wouldn't rake. IMHO high wind is a wheel rakes largest enemy. My 14 wheel H&S cost me $9000. I bought it in the early Spring 2002. It has raked many/many 100's of acres. It's cost me less than $600 per yr to own & that's considering it at $0000 salvage value.

 

Nothing like jorfarm’s picture above. Most difficult I’m guessing heavy oats or rye for baleage that doesn’t get the time to dry down. Maybe sorghum/Sudan multiple cuts. Not the one cut species.

 

Unless I’m badly mistaking, that rake is in really nice shape. I don’t see any signs of abuse and the tine tips don’t look very worn. Shouldn’t need work for a long time. That has the Z style tine which is the conventional style of tine. That is a “genuine” WRX14, meaning it has two caster wheels per wing and a joint in the wing allowing the wing itself to articulate and follow the ground better. There were quite a number of WRX12s that had another section of wing bolted to the front, giving 14 wheels like this one but then the wing beam was rigid. One interesting feature of the WRX rakes is that the main frame telescopes shorter as the wings are opened up. The Vermeer WRX series is a rebadged Tonutti.

I’m not sure you will get it bought for double it’s current bid. Trucking will be a $$$$ pain too as I’m not sure it will fit on a 102” wide deck. I know my Rowses don’t.

 

That was my thought as well. Teeth still have paint and not bent all to hell. Thank you for opinion on price and I guess have a hard time taking a leap with prices of new then regretting it if it doesn’t work. With price of new and your opinion of condition probably worth close to $15000 to the right person

 

@Tx Jim Do you have wind panels in your rake? That helps immensely in windy conditions.

 

Yes I have some wind guards but not all 14.

 

I'm curious if Vermeer rake has hinges in area of photo below. JD 704 rake I purchased before H&S rake had no hinges & rectangular tubing at rear of rake broke several times during & after warranty. I don't like the rear braces that could obstruct hay flow & my H&S doesn't have those type braces. But rake frame appears strong

 

Jim, there are two hinge axes there. There is a long vertical axis the pin of which is just visible in front of the upright frame member and a shorter horizontal axis the pin of which is the shiny object in the first picture. The frame of the WRX was pretty well designed, although not overly heavy. I would avoid the WRX12 that was made into a 14, and I would also avoid the WRX18/20 which had a bizarre gangly frame that looked much too light for the job. I never had a problem with those rear frame braces obstructing crop at all and there were times I had that exit space filled plumb full when raking two oat hay windrows on one. Following a 14’ swather.

What is the Tonutti model I would research to further my knowledge.

I used to know this stuff better. I believe it is similar to the Tonnutti Millennium line, but it looks like Tooti Fruiti made the frames a little different depending on the badging. I’m not seeing a 14 wheel Tonnutti that has the hinge toward the front of the wing and 4 caster wheels. Seems all the Tonnutti Millium V14s have a rigid wing frame. If I remember right, those rakes were sold under at least 4 names, Tonnutti, Vermeer, Gehl possibly, Miller Pro possibly, and I know there was one other short line name they sold them under also.

Because I was raking mostly cornstalks and I felt the WRX wasn’t up to that abuse, I didn’t own mine all that long. In that time the only mechanical failure I had was caster wheel hub bearing failure (they are ball bearings). I did break a lot of tines, but mine had the Durabull tines which were very effective but known to fail. The rake you are looking at does not have them. I did run into problems with mud buildup on the caster wheels stopping the wheels from turning, but that is pretty much strictly a cornstalk raking problem. Overall I thought the WRX12, and the WRX14/16 with the hinged wings (4 casters) would be a good choice for mid level haying operation.