[jmitch]

What is the deal for the mushroom buyers in Pa? People around Northern Va are tight lipped about it. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[somedevildawg]

I don't mean to imply I only grow below average hay. I do hay plots of nice hay, too. Being new in the business has forced me to take all the fields I can get to build up a base. Some of those fields have less than spectacular hay when you first take them on. Therefore they go to mushroom hay until I can get the quality up.
I would like to sell my better hay for $150 or more per ton. That would be a good goal for my costs. I pay no land rent. Just equip payments, fuel, fert, insurance, etc. and a little sumptin-sumptin for me
The square bale buyers in my area are, for the most part, some of the dumbest people I have ever met. Girls with big ford diesel trucks, but hats, and lots of daddy money. Round bale buyers are usually true cattlemen or dairy farmers and they will look inside a bale, probe it, etc to get an idea of the quality.
I realize all our areas have different people, situations and supply/demand.

Doesn't matter jd at the end of the day it only matters that you made money and had fun doing it....I like making hay, it's a challenge and I like challenges, it's also the least profitable of all the business ventures I've had with the largest expenditure of capital....

.
Fact is, if I ain't gettn 160 a ton, I'm probably loosing money, I prefer not to look close enough so as not to see....
I had to shift my operation to squares in order to attain those goals. The cattleman or dairyman has a set amount he will pay for forage and his price and my price just don't jive, prolly because the price has been set by the round bale market. Most marginal land around here is hay land, with row crops doing as well as they have been, we could see more and more hay land taken up with row crops here, I'm all for that, prolly start baling ditches around here at that point, Mc D's, Krystal, and lottery tickets included at no charge.....

 

[JD3430]

Right now I'm getting roughly $200/ton for my cheapest hay which is good enough for horses. 1st cutting made on time.

Rest of my hay has all been in the $250-$300 a ton for round bales at the auctions or roughly starting at $120/bale since they are just a tad under thousand pounders if you get them yourself. I haven't delivered a bale yet privately. Averaging so far this year $271/ton.

In a normal year I won't sell a 800lb round bale for less than $45/bale, more on the earlier cut first cutting. If I can't get $40/bale for it I'll hold it back and feed it to the walking steaks. Again for that $45/bale YOU come and get it. Price goes up if I have to deliver and I also charge mileage. Since the messiah took office the price for delivery has gone up to $3 a loaded mile from the time I leave the driveway. Used to charge around $2.50 a mile and the first ten miles was free, but road fuel was cheaper back in the day.

So the higher prices you are getting now are artificially high due to a hay shortage?
I believe my "mid grade" hay is good enough for horses. My best is most definately good enough and my worst is mushroom or walking steak hay.

 

[Tim/South]

JD, We know you well enough that you make some good hay. I am betting you build a good solid house as well.
I also have some "new to me" hay ground that is still a work in the process. Baling hay off the farm is new to me. We spent many years baling top quality Bermuda for the horse market.
As times changed here, I moved in a different direction and decided to go back into momma cows. In doing so I got educated on the hay practiced of others.
I learned that there are people out there putting a string around anything and calling it hay. I bought some of that junk the last two years as I did not have the ground to make all the hay I needed as I added cows. This forced me to change gears and find fields off the farm. I now make enough hay to be in the position to sell some to generate cash flow. I still have to compete with the bottom dwellers.
If those guys had half the ambition to make good hay that you did then they would not be in the $30 hay business.
You have goals and work toward reaching those goals and that is impressive. I always enjoy reading your posts and following your mind set.

 

[Lazy J]

I think the biggest issue we have in the hay industry is one of weight. For the most part we have absolutely NO idea what a "bale" weighs and base most of our decisions on "well is should weigh X".

If you have a set price for a unit of weight of hay, say $200/ton, and you know the weight of the bale or average bale weight, then pricing one bale of hay is a simple algebra. However if the weight of the bale is unknown then all bets are off and one side of the buying equation is probably not being treated fairly.

For this reason I HATE selling by the "bale". Hay selling is the only part of production ag where most of the sales are based on an erroneus unit of measure, the notorious "bale".

Jim

 

[Lazy J]

I believe my "mid grade" hay is good enough for horses. My best is most definately good enough and my worst is mushroom or walking steak hay.

JD,

How do you know that your mid grade hay is "good enough" for horses? Do you test your hay?

I am a Livestock Nutritionist by training, I work primarily with pigs, so my view on hay is as a feedstuff to meet specific nurtional needs for a specific animal.

When we sell hay off the farm we test every lot of hay we produce, this way I can know they quality of the hay and can provide the type of hay to meet a customer's needs. Of course this analysis is coupled with the physical attibutes of the hay too.

The term "Horse Hay" is the biggest falacy used in the hay market today.

Jim

 

[JD3430]

I think the biggest issue we have in the hay industry is one of weight. For the most part we have absolutely NO idea what a "bale" weighs and base most of our decisions on "well is should weigh X".

If you have a set price for a unit of weight of hay, say $200/ton, and you know the weight of the bale or average bale weight, then pricing one bale of hay is a simple algebra. However if the weight of the bale is unknown then all bets are off and one side of the buying equation is probably not being treated fairly.

For this reason I HATE selling by the "bale". Hay selling is the only part of production ag where most of the sales are based on an erroneus unit of measure, the notorious "bale".

Jim

Yes I agree that is why I made sure to say 900lb bale.
It would be great if you could somehow weigh each bale for customer and prove to them what they're getting per bale without a lot of expenditure.

 

[JD3430]

JD,

How do you know that your mid grade hay is "good enough" for horses? Do you test your hay?

I am a Livestock Nutritionist by training, I work primarily with pigs, so my view on hay is as a feedstuff to meet specific nurtional needs for a specific animal.

When we sell hay off the farm we test every lot of hay we produce, this way I can know they quality of the hay and can provide the type of hay to meet a customer's needs. Of course this analysis is coupled with the physical attibutes of the hay too.

The term "Horse Hay" is the biggest falacy used in the hay market today.

Jim

Guilty as charged. I really dont know professor. I go by what feedback I get from customer and what I am putting in the bale in terms of lack of weeds and testing my bales for moisture. Would like to be able to get real time prompt test results so I can know what nutrition levels I'm selling, too.

 

[swmnhay]

I think the biggest issue we have in the hay industry is one of weight. For the most part we have absolutely NO idea what a "bale" weighs and base most of our decisions on "well is should weigh X".

If you have a set price for a unit of weight of hay, say $200/ton, and you know the weight of the bale or average bale weight, then pricing one bale of hay is a simple algebra. However if the weight of the bale is unknown then all bets are off and one side of the buying equation is probably not being treated fairly.

For this reason I HATE selling by the "bale". Hay selling is the only part of production ag where most of the sales are based on an erroneus unit of measure, the notorious "bale".

Jim

I sell everything by the ton.Most of the hay in this area is sold by the ton.

The few that are selling by the bale are normally a smaller baler.The bales are not tight.And very good chance it doesn't wiegh as much as they claim.But the person buying it can't figure out they are getting the short end of the deal.All they look at is bale price.They obviously were not very good at arithmetic.Don't own or know how to use a calculator.

Sometimes I just scratch my head that some of these people just can't figure it out.You have to show them on paper.

 

[JD3430]

JD, We know you well enough that you make some good hay. I am betting you build a good solid house as well.
I also have some "new to me" hay ground that is still a work in the process. Baling hay off the farm is new to me. We spent many years baling top quality Bermuda for the horse market.
As times changed here, I moved in a different direction and decided to go back into momma cows. In doing so I got educated on the hay practiced of others.
I learned that there are people out there putting a string around anything and calling it hay. I bought some of that junk the last two years as I did not have the ground to make all the hay I needed as I added cows. This forced me to change gears and find fields off the farm. I now make enough hay to be in the position to sell some to generate cash flow. I still have to compete with the bottom dwellers.
If those guys had half the ambition to make good hay that you did then they would not be in the $30 hay business.
You have goals and work toward reaching those goals and that is impressive. I always enjoy reading your posts and following your mind set.

Tim, thanks. The feeling is mutual. You and the other guys have been my mentors all along with my own ambition & determination.
I would love to become a full time hay farmer. I think I already am in my heart.
I dont want to grow the really pristine hay (yet). I dont think it would pay as good of a profit as good to very good hay. I dont have the knowledge and time to make the really great stuff.
My short term goal is to supply the small herd owner (5-25 head) with hay. I think that fits my ability right now. Not junk hay with trash in it, just good solid hay 10-50 rolls at a time. I haven't got a clue how farm alfalfa, plant new stands yet. (I could probably do it, but I usually underestimate my abilities-would love to try it).
Maybe my goals will change, but I'm a one man band with my 13 yr old boy helping a little. I just cant do the small squares and the headaches associated with them. I will try my best to put good hay in those rolls.
Thanks for your words of encouragement.

 

[rjmoses]

JD,

The term "Horse Hay" is the biggest falacy used in the hay market today.

Jim

Boy, do I agree with this! Most "horse hay" buyers are looking for green color only. I tell my customers that's why some people add green food coloring to their propionic acid. That really gets their attention! The shocked look is priceless.

IMHO, horse quality hay depends on what the horse is doing. My main horse gets 2-4 hours work 5-6 days/week. And a lot of it is at the trot/canter--she gets 5-8 lbs alfalfa, rest grass.. My injured horse stands around looking handsome all day--he gets the poorest quality hay I have--keeps his mind and mouth busy.

Ralph

 

[JD3430]

Yeah I guess I should be using a numerical scale of quality (like 1 through 10), not one determined by the animal consuming it. lol

 

[Nitram]

As a small timer cow/calf operation what I look for is clean&tight bale with a good aroma when I pull some from inside. I feed rounds exclusively. I don't have the time to throw idiot bricks every day! As a producer I can put up rounds efficiently and keep my costs down as long as I put it up proper the girls do very well. Some insight to your customers JD. Hope it helps. Martin

 

[vhaby]

How much can one afford to lose on hay?

Coastal bermudagrass yields are from research plots where there was no forage loss in the harvest process. Fertilizer prices and spreading are what is currently charged in this region.

Soil test recommendation suggests 190 lb 21-8-17/ac (This is low depending on soil test results)

Blend made from Urea (46-0-0), DAP (18-46-0), & Potash (0-0-60)

Prices current as of Feb. 12, 2013
46- 0-0 @ $0.63/lb of N
18-46-0 @ $0.63/lb of N and $0.46/lb P2O5
0- 0-60 @ $0.51/lb of K2O
Spreading cost @ $5.00/ac
Contracted haying cost is $25/bale and assume 1,000 bale (Price may be higher than if you do your own hay???)

40 lb N, 15 lb P2O5, & 34 lb K2O + spreading = $54.44/acre

If applied for five cuttings, fertilizer cost is $272.20 + $307.73 haying cost or a total of $579.93/ac to produce 6.15 tons of hay = $94.30/ton for low nutritive value hay.

Double the fertilizer to 80-30-68 lb/ac/cutting for five cuttings to increase hay yield to 7.57 t/ac- Fertilizer cost = $544.40; Haying cost = $378.35 for cost of production = $922.75/ac. Break even price for hay = $121.94/ton.

Tripling the fertilizer to 120-45-102 lb/cutting plus haying cost increases hay yield to 7.92 t/ac- Fertilizer cost = $816.60; Haying cost = $396.10 for cost of production = $1,212.70/ac. Break even price for hay = $153.08/ton.

The values for break even price don't include sulfur, magnesium, calcium, and micronutrients contained in the hay.

Limestone, land and equipment ownership, and hay handling costs also are not included in this price

 

[JD3430]

yikes!

 

[jdm13]

How much can one afford to lose on hay?

Coastal bermudagrass yields are from research plots where there was no forage loss in the harvest process. Fertilizer prices and spreading are what is currently charged in this region.

Soil test recommendation suggests 190 lb 21-8-17/ac (This is low depending on soil test results)

Blend made from Urea (46-0-0), DAP (18-46-0), & Potash (0-0-60)

Prices current as of Feb. 12, 2013
46- 0-0 @ $0.63/lb of N
18-46-0 @ $0.63/lb of N and $0.46/lb P2O5
0- 0-60 @ $0.51/lb of K2O
Spreading cost @ $5.00/ac
Contracted haying cost is $25/bale and assume 1,000 bale (Price may be higher than if you do your own hay???)

40 lb N, 15 lb P2O5, & 34 lb K2O + spreading = $54.44/acre

If applied for five cuttings, fertilizer cost is $272.20 + $307.73 haying cost or a total of $579.93/ac to produce 6.15 tons of hay = $94.30/ton for low nutritive value hay.

Double the fertilizer to 80-30-68 lb/ac/cutting for five cuttings to increase hay yield to 7.57 t/ac- Fertilizer cost = $544.40; Haying cost = $378.35 for cost of production = $922.75/ac. Break even price for hay = $121.94/ton.

Tripling the fertilizer to 120-45-102 lb/cutting plus haying cost increases hay yield to 7.92 t/ac- Fertilizer cost = $816.60; Haying cost = $396.10 for cost of production = $1,212.70/ac. Break even price for hay = $153.08/ton.

The values for break even price don't include sulfur, magnesium, calcium, and micronutrients contained in the hay.

Limestone, land and equipment ownership, and hay handling costs also are not included in this price

must you do this to us i already look at these guys and wished i lived in an area where we could think about getting $150 a ton the only way i am getting $100 a ton for my tiffton 44 or sumrall007 4 x 5 round bales net wrapped well fert and sprayed no weeds not a drop of rain baled at 10-14% moisture put in a barn as soon as possible is if everyone else is out of hay and the consumer has no where else to turn but here in central ms the consumer could care less what they are getting

 

[SVFHAY]

Hey 34, what's a "but hat"?

 

[Canderson012]

Plain old Jane hay like that is $40 tops unless demand is up very high.

 

[JD3430]

Hey 34, what's a "but hat"?

Butt Hat = Tattoo on the small of the back above the butt cheeks found commonly on the adolescent to cougar-aged female human species.

 

[JD3430]

Plain old Jane hay like that is $40 tops unless demand is up very high.

It must be because you guys have a longer growing season, therefore more hay, therefore more supply and ultimately lower prices.
Trucking it all the way up to me over the mason/dixon line would be too costly and take the cost of your low price hay up to what we can charge for it up here in yankee country.
Maybe my "4 season" enviroment combined with disappearing farmland will finally work to my advantage????? That would be nice because I HATE cold windy winter weather.