[Vol]

I'm curious Mike. Why do you have to redo your orchard fields every 5-6 years there? Weed presence? Stand dies out? I ask because unless you want to change crops and you are a somewhat decent farmer here you never have to redo an orchard field. We have one orchard/brome field that is at least 40 years old. It's like a lawn it's so thick. And produces as well as a field 3 years old.

Like I said, I guess it is the heat that makes them get thinner and thinner. OG is a bunch grass so it does have a tendency here to get that way( thin clumps). I have never heard of a OG field lasting 40 years. You folks can count yourself lucky as I don't know of anyone on this side of the Mississippi that gets one to last that long. I know that some varieties of Brome last a long time....but I sure never heard of OG lasting as long as you state.

Regards, Mike

 

[Teslan]

Like I said, I guess it is the heat that makes them get thinner and thinner. OG is a bunch grass so it does have a tendency here to get that way( thin clumps). I have never heard of a OG field lasting 40 years. You folks can count yourself lucky as I don't know of anyone on this side of the Mississippi that gets one to last that long. I know that some varieties of Brome last a long time....but I sure never heard of OG lasting as long as you state.

Regards, Mike

It could be the heat. Since yours doesn't get cool at night. For the most part we go to 60 degrees or less every night of the year. Maybe a longer dormant period helps also. Maybe since your soil holds more moisture machinery traffic might also hurt during harvest. Also do you have to spray herbicide yearly? I've decided herbicide on grass hay fields for the most part isn't a good thing unless the weeds are bad. Every time I've sprayed new seedings the orchard/brome really gets stunted for that cutting. We don't spray any of our established fields. No need to. I want you know I didn't mean to sound like I think our area is better. I just haven't heard of anyone around here having to replant orchard grass or any grass due anything but changing crops or lousy irrigation. So I was curious.

 

[Vol]

I am sure Ralph Moses is right about compaction/traffic hurting grasses in our clay soils. I usually do not have to spray very much herbicide, but I may have to spray the first year of a new stand to kill the weeds that I stirred up.

Regards, Mike

 

[swmnhay]

Here orchardgrass can winter kill just like alfalfa.

 

[Teslan]

I am sure Ralph Moses is right about compaction/traffic hurting grasses in our clay soils. I usually do not have to spray very much herbicide, but I may have to spray the first year of a new stand to kill the weeds that I stirred up.

Regards, Mike

Yes same here with spraying. Coop guy always seems kinda shocked I don't want to spray for weeds. Why spray if you don't have to..

 

[Beav]

we have been lucky to have a dealer who rents all kinds of equipment You may not get exactly what you want but they have something that will work for $200 a day sounds expensive but for using a $10k seeder that works flawlessly was a bargain got a great stand

 

[Dadnatron]

That is definitely a plus for you Beav.

I need access to a seeder and a subsoiler. Can get neither without purchase.

 

[FarmerCline]

Dadnatron, I have a Brillion seeder I bought a couple years ago and I have been very pleased with it. For planting into a prepared seedbed I don't think you can beat a Brillion. Just make sure the soil is a little mellow before planting with the Brillion and then roll it with the cultimulcher with the teeth up after planting and you will get a picture perfect stand. I don't quite understand the comment about a Brillion seeder being slow.....I run my Brillion up to 5 mph which is just as fast as using a drill.

With that being said I am moving away from planting as much with the Brillion and starting to use a JD notill drill. Mostly due to the fact that much of my ground is pretty hilly and prone to wash and once I get the fields in good shape I don't really want to work them back up. With a good notill drill and some close attention to the seeding depth you can get a good stand with a drill. For planting worked ground I do think it is harder to get a good stand with a drill since it is very easy to get the seeds too deep.

I think a Brillion seeder would be your best option to get a good stand. If you don't think you would need it again anytime soon maybe you could resell it?

 

[8350HiTech]

It's really about what you want to spend. You could seed it with a wooden-boxed Oliver Superior drill and a cultipacker if you wanted to.

 

[FarmerCline]

It's really about what you want to spend. You could seed it with a wooden-boxed Oliver Superior drill and a cultipacker if you wanted to.

I'm not familiar with the old Oliver drills but I had a hard time at first getting a good stand of Timothy and alfalfa with an old JD Van Brunt drill. I finally figured out it was best to remove the seed tubes from the openers and just let the seed sprinkle out then roll it in with a cultimulcher with the teeth up. The disc openers on those old drills did not have consistent enough depth control to plant small seeds consistently at 1/4" depth.....worked great for small grain though.

That could be a good lower cost option for the original poster if he could find a drill that isn't shot.....don't see many around here that aren't rusted out and have a small seed box.

 

[Beav]

you can mix seed with fertilizer have the dealer spread it and light drag or better cultipack it in

 

[The saint]

So in a last life i worked on a side farm we used a billion seeder exclusively and love the results but there is a big difference in stand quality from Jay to do so is it worth it for a Jay field? I don't know i just did a field with a broadcast spreader and then rolled it with a furnished with times up and got great results.

We did run ou r billion at a half day and over lap 50% to prevent any chance of skip in the sod

 

[Dadnatron]

We did run ou r billion at a half day and over lap 50% to prevent any chance of skip in the sod

Saint, do you mean you ran your Brillion at half application amount and essentially doubled the passes, overlapping 50% each pass? Were you ever worried about 'overpacking' the surface?

I have disked then cultipacked at 90deg to each other and 45deg to the original drill path. The ground was as expected, but we did have a pretty good rain the day after cultipacking. I haven't had a chance to see how it all turned out after the rain yet, but will take a look this weekend. I don't know whether I will need to go over it in some way before I plant. I suspect yes if I use a Brillion and perhaps not if I go with the Extension's No-till.

My wife said it didn't wash, which was somewhat of a surprise, as prior to disking, the no-till did run a bit in a couple places. Perhaps the disking loosened the top up enough to accept more water quicker.

 

[Dadnatron]

As I was looking through information concerning seeders, I found a Land Pride NTS2511 which is very interesting.

I had looked at smaller versions of this machine with an eye to the future as a 'pasture renovation' tool. But, that was when the largest they had was a 9' model. Now, I see they have an 11' model, which changes things in my eyes relatively significantly.

It has a basic 'Brillion' type design in that it has front and back rollers, dropping the seed between them. There are a few differences, which allow this machine to better renovate pasture however. The front 'roller' is actually 2 slightly overlapping rollers with spikes. These rollers can be angled up to 18deg, thereby causing a more aggressive 'preworking' of the soil prior to seed drop. The following roller is about the same as the following roller on a Brillion.

The only question I have is whether it can do a good job as a primary seeder on worked soil. Brillion is obviously designed specifically for that job, given a larger leading roller. The Land Pride front roller isn't designed to primarily be a 'packing roller' although it looks like it could work well if kept in straight rolling form/direction. The spikes will certainly cause more disturbance than a non-spiked roller, but I am not sure it would be enough to cause a problem. This is the crux.

The Land Pride would be MUCH more useful to me on a year in and out basis given its ability to renovate areas of a pasture which are thin but could use some help. But I don't know whether it can put in a good primary seeding to begin with. I would give up 'some' initial benefit for a more long term useful machine. But I don't want a crap stand because I tried to short cut a problem.

What do you think about the utility of using this seeder as a primary seeder over disked/cultipacked/rained upon ground? The 'breaking up' caused by the roller might be just the thing for a thin crust from the rain. But... I don't want to be talking myself into something just because it 'seems' like it would work well.

Land Pride NTS 2511

 

[Fossil02818]

In addition to my Brillion seeder I have a Belco No Till Conservation seeder that uses a similar spike front roller with following cultipacker rollers. I have used it extensively for pasture and hayfield renovation as you anticipate doing. It is useful as a seeder into a prepared seedbed but not as good as the Brillion for small seed. I have found that I need to apply a heavier amount of seed since some seed gets deposited deeper into the spike holes than desired. So an alfalfa seed for example may fall an inch into the disturbed soil rather than be pressed just a bit into the surface as the Brillion would. My Belco also has a larger following roller than that Landpride. Heavier is better for getting good seed to soil contact especially for the small legume seeds and timothy as well. Lots of variables for you to consider. Hope this helps.

 

[slowzuki]

I've always had this idea of have a small set of coulters ahead of my 3 point brillion that the weight of the brillion keep in the ground to do some overseeding with it. Anyone ever mess around with something like this? I'll have to keep an eye out at the auctions for an old fertilizer bar or something.

 

[deerezilla]

I plant on my rotation 225 acr every year of alfalfa. I hire a airflow to come in blow the seed and fertlizer on and I roal it in with my 30 ft Parma rolerharrow. I'm doing this on Monday. I have a John Deere 455 24ft with a grass seed attachment I find I get a better stand with the air flow.

 

[Dadnatron]

I have found that I need to apply a heavier amount of seed since some seed gets deposited deeper into the spike holes than desired. So an alfalfa seed for example may fall an inch into the disturbed soil rather than be pressed just a bit into the surface as the Brillion would.

What is your % more estimation that you are adding, when you use/would use the Belco as a primary seeder?

I'm thinking hard about this machine as it would be much more useful on a yearly basis to my farm.

 

[Fossil02818]

I have increased my seed application rate by around 33%. So for example if the recommended rate for alfalfa was 5-10lbs/acre in a mix with grass seed I would apply 7.5 to 15lbs/acre. This is by no means a scientific calculation. Just my experience here. Whenever I used the conservation seeder for planting in a prepared seedbed I found that it was less precise than more specialized seeders such as the Brillion or a coulter equiped seeder. Different horses for different courses. The spike style seeders have great versatility but they are not without limitations.

 

[Dadnatron]

I took a leap and went with the Land Pride NTS2511.

I found a 4ac demo unit and towed it home yesterday. It rained, and given Harvey, it is forcast to be raining or rainy for the next 7-10 days. This is going to put my planting at the late stages of acceptable here in KY, according to the 'people in the know'. If I had the seeder over the weekend, the weather was perfect, and it would be able to take advantage of the 2 additional weeks and all the moisture. But... so goes farming.

I went over the seeder for a few hours yesterday afternoon, aligning the seed cups and trying to calibrate the small seed bin. There must be some issues, because I had it set for right around 20lbs/ac for alfalfa small seed bin, and I ended up with 37lbs. I will spend some time determining whether I was just doing something incorrectly this weekend.

One thing about this seeder which is odd is that it has 3 adjustable 'gearing modes' which essentially cause the seed box gear/drop mechanism to turn faster or slower. This could be the issue, although, when I look at the gearing, it appears to be set at the correct rotation. I'm going to have to check with the Rep to insure it, because their 'suggestion and my actual' are significantly different.

I also noticed, that one of the 3 seed cups was dropping only about 75% of the others. I cleaned it out and checked everything I could find, and there is nothing clogging either the tube or the cup that I can see. This makes me wonder whether other cups could also be significantly variant.