Sprayer plumbing questions

1947 Views 57 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Catherine07, 5 d ago

Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · 2 mo ago

I have an old 70's vintage Walsh 26' boom sprayer that used to be my grandpa's. It's 200 gallon I think.

On the bottom of the tank there is a 1" barb, presumably for the suction out of the tank, and a 1/2" barb, presumably for the recirculator.

On the manifold, there is a regulator with a 1" barb on it (and filter), next is two valves with red handles (1/2" barbs), and two valves with green screw handles with 1/2" barbs.

Now on the PTO pump, there is a 1/2" barb and a 1" barb fitting.

So I'm really confused about how this is supposed to go together. I would have thought that there should be 2 x 1" barbs on the pump, with one side of it sucking from the tank, and the other side of the pump sending it to the manifold's 1" barb. And one of the 1/2" barbs on the manifold would be the recirculator that sends it back to the 1/2" barb on the bottom of the tank.

I've included a picture of the manifold.

How do I properly set this up? I don't have any experience with big sprayers like this.

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Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #21 · 2 mo ago

AndyH359 said:
The mechanical engineer in me is going to come out for a bit on this one. You should always have some type of pressure relief device on the pressure side of a pump, and in particular, for ANY kind of positive displacement pump.

Roller pumps are positive displacement pumps. That means they will push X amount of water for each rotation of the input shaft. The pump will create pressure until it can push this X amount of water somewhere. So if you dead head the pump (meaning shut ALL the valves on the pump outlet), the system will find your weakest point and push X amount of water out there. Some options include 1) rupturing a hose or fitting 2) breaking something internal to pump so that it no longer is moving X amount of water 3) stall your tractor/motor (the energy source driving the pump 4) installing a pressure relief valve on the pressure side so that the water can move, even if it is just back to the suction side of the pump.

So however you design your system, make absolutely sure for safety reasons that the pressure relief valve can never be isolated from the pressure side of the system so that none of the other three bad things can happen. (Just like you never plug the pressure/temperature relief valve on your hot water tank.)

I had that much figured out. If the pump is creating pressure it’s GOT to go somewhere and I don’t want that to be all over me.

danwi

· #22 · 2 mo ago

I don't know how much spraying you intend to do, but if I was doing any amount, I would do a few things like I did when I plumbed my current sprayer. That is if you are going to make any changes or are you just going to make what you have work. On the bottom of the tank, I put a T and ran a line out to the frame with a valve and quick coupler fitting so I can fill with a transfer pump. Between the tank and pump I have a 5 gallon chemical inductor just T'ed into the line with a couple valves and I am able to run most chemicals in there instead of having to dump in the top although once in a while I will have to dump something in the top. If you spray with a cab tractor, get electric valves for the booms. You can make a control console with 3 or 4 toggle switches, start with 1 as the master then wire each one off of that to control each boom, for 3 valves I use a 4 wire trailer plug from the tractor to the sprayer. I have a manual valve if I want a hand wand. And as others have said I run 2 screens course one before the pump and a fine one after and screens at the spray tips.

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JRehberg

· #23 · 2 mo ago

A couple of other things I'll add from experience with my pull behind. it's an older 1990s top air that I replumbed and welded on over the past 12-15 years and is now nearly perfect for my needs.
1. Take the time to calibrate your sprayer, it's not hard.
2. Add an inline manual shutoff valve between the tank and the first filter (prior to the roller pump).
3. Have a spare (or two) of every single fitting on the sprayer close at hand. I keep a toolbox with all this stuff on the sprayer.
4. Have a couple of hose menders and a short piece or two of hose in said toolbox as well.
5. Have some nozzle caps for the nozzle bodies in case a tip goes bad; you can cap it off and keep going.
6. If you decide to get a foam marker be sure and purchase bulk tylenol as well; or just save your money and get a gps.

Don't worry, the only time you're going to have to deal with the issues listed above is on calm afternoons with $500 worth of chemical in the tank. Other than that, sprayers don't tend to leak or cause issues. I can pretty much do open heart surgery on my sprayer in the field and it has saved my bacon on a number of occasions.

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Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #24 · 2 mo ago

JRehberg said:
A couple of other things I'll add from experience with my pull behind. it's an older 1990s top air that I replumbed and welded on over the past 12-15 years and is now nearly perfect for my needs.
1. Take the time to calibrate your sprayer, it's not hard.

This I'll be doing

2. Add an inline manual shutoff valve between the tank and the first filter (prior to the roller pump).

I actually ordered these yesterday, but was going to do shut off valve after the filter instead of before it (so if hose was disconnected and filter was full, it wouldn't leak). Is there a reason to doing the shut off valve before the filter?

3. Have a spare (or two) of every single fitting on the sprayer close at hand. I keep a toolbox with all this stuff on the sprayer.

Grandpa never threw anything away so I'm set here lol!

4. Have a couple of hose menders and a short piece or two of hose in said toolbox as well.
5. Have some nozzle caps for the nozzle bodies in case a tip goes bad; you can cap it off and keep going.

I have all these as well!

6. If you decide to get a foam marker be sure and purchase bulk tylenol as well; or just save your money and get a gps.

I'm too poor for a foam system but was wanting to eventually get an onTrak GPS indicator for spraying and fertilizing, which is about $900-ish.

danwi

· #25 · 2 mo ago

Valve between tank and filter so you, so if you have to you could shut it off and clean the filter. Short of breaking off the valve anything happens you can shut it off. There have been other threads dedicated to the topic of GPS, just talked last week to my local outback guidance dealer, I have a light bar and I bought it because I didn't want to spend a lot of money. When it comes to using them in the field, something with a screen showing you where you are is much better, especially in irregular shaped fields where you are trying to stay on a contour. I have gotten just a little bit of experience with the neighbors self-propelled sprayer the last couple of years. I know its more money. In most cases the light bar is better then foam.

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Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #26 · 2 mo ago

danwi said:
Valve between tank and filter so you, so if you have to you could shut it off and clean the filter. Short of breaking off the valve anything happens you can shut it off. There have been other threads dedicated to the topic of GPS, just talked last week to my local outback guidance dealer, I have a light bar and I bought it because I didn't want to spend a lot of money. When it comes to using them in the field, something with a screen showing you where you are is much better, especially in irregular shaped fields where you are trying to stay on a contour. I have gotten just a little bit of experience with the neighbors self-propelled sprayer the last couple of years. I know its more money. In most cases the light bar is better then foam.

The light bar system also includes an app that displays to your phone or tablet so you can see your position and implement width in the field. I have a puzzle shaped field that a light bar wouldn’t work on but the app would be nice.

Reactions: 1

AndyH359

· #27 · 2 mo ago

I use a Trimble EZ Guide for spraying and spreading fertilizer for about 4 years. I figure the thing paid for itself in 2-3 years by making my spraying and spreading more accurate.

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Ranger518

· #28 · 2 mo ago

GPS is awsome but I still enjoy my cropcare fs2500 foam marker on my 25’ sprayer. I think the whole kit only runs about 350.00 which could pay for itself in just 1 use.

Reactions: 1

JRehberg

· #29 · 2 mo ago

Ditto on danwi, being able to isolate the tank with an immediate shut off is exactly why I plumbed mine that way. On the gps front, I have a Teejet 570gs that I purchased on sale 4 or 5 years ago. Been very happy with it. I don't think teejet is making that particular model anymore but something similar would easily suffice once funds allow.

Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #30 · 2 mo ago

I've got everything plumbed up and just need to connect the suction hose. I haven't done it yet though because I've seen some videos of guys with roller pumps who didn't appear to have a suction hose. Are the ribbed suction hoses actually necessary for a roller pump? They're pretty inflexible and I'd rather have something that's a little more flexible.

jrehberg321

· #31 · 2 mo ago

I’m not sure as all 3 of my sprayers use ribbed hose between the tank and pump. They can certainly be a headache To deal with.

Ranger518

· #32 · 2 mo ago

Hayjosh said:
I've got everything plumbed up and just need to connect the suction hose. I haven't done it yet though because I've seen some videos of guys with roller pumps who didn't appear to have a suction hose. Are the ribbed suction hoses actually necessary for a roller pump? They're pretty inflexible and I'd rather have something that's a little more flexible.

I don’t run the ribbed suction hose just regular rubber sprayer hose and have never had a issue.

PaulN

· #33 · 2 mo ago

If your suction hose is too soft, it could collapse. There is a reason for the ribbed suction hose, and I never found it that difficult to deal with.

danwi

· #34 · 2 mo ago

The ribbed stuff usually isn't as stiff when new. But like a lot of plastic- rubber products it seems to get harder with age. Leave it lay in the Sunshine or a pail of hot water when you want to use it makes it easier to work with.

Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #35 · 30 d ago

2

I finally fired everything up this weekend and it was an epic fail. Where to start…

The ribbed suction hose can’t clamp down tight enough over the barb fitting and leaks. I have two clamps on it.
The output hose of the pump is also leaking around the bar fitting.
Even though I had the valves open to the booms nothing was coming out. And several of the sprayer tips had gotten broken off, maybe when the sprayer had tipped over backwards. I know water was getting through the line but nothing coming out the tips.
I wasn’t getting ANYTHING coming through the pressure release valve/regulator that runs to the recirculator valve in the tank. So maybe I need to try a new valve
I was only running the PTO at low speed and pressure was about 30 psi because I didn’t want to put a bunch of pressure in the system if it wasn’t going to work.
I don’t know if I have the tips installed properly. Here they are. Sitting above them is a strainer that sits on them like a top hat. I thought about removing the strainers to see if those were killing all my flow.

I’d love any suggestions to try. This was pretty frustrating. I have everything set up exactly like Ranger’s drawing.

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Ranger518

· #36 · 30 d ago

I finally fired everything up this weekend and it was an epic fail. Where to start…

The ribbed suction hose can’t clamp down tight enough over the barb fitting and leaks. I have two clamps on it.
The output hose of the pump is also leaking around the bar fitting.
Even though I had the valves open to the booms nothing was coming out. And several of the sprayer tips had gotten broken off, maybe when the sprayer had tipped over backwards. I know water was getting through the line but nothing coming out the tips.
I wasn’t getting ANYTHING coming through the pressure release valve/regulator that runs to the recirculator valve in the tank. So maybe I need to try a new valve
I was only running the PTO at low speed and pressure was about 30 psi because I didn’t want to put a bunch of pressure in the system if it wasn’t going to work.
I don’t know if I have the tips installed properly. Here they are. Sitting above them is a strainer that sits on them like a top hat. I thought about removing the strainers to see if those were killing all my flow.

I’d love any suggestions to try. This was pretty frustrating. I have everything set up exactly like Ranger’s drawing.

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the hoses haft to be a tight fit in the barb if it slides in without having to heat it the barb is to small. As far as nozzles go have you taken them off there should be a filter inside each one that could be stopped up. Also do you have a new or old roller pump as they will and do often wear out especially if it was used with glyphosate. That could be why you have no bypass might not be building up enough pressure or flow.

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Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #37 · 30 d ago

It’s an old roller pump but rebuild kits are available for it.

The barbs are 1” and the hose is 1”ID so is it common to actually require, say a 1.25” OD barb for 1” hose?

Ranger518

· #38 · 30 d ago

Hayjosh said:
It’s an old roller pump but rebuild kits are available for it.

The barbs are 1” and the hose is 1”ID so is it common to actually require, say a 1.25” OD barb for 1” hose?

No you should not need to go to a larger size barb I have seen older barbs rust and cause them to be smaller and leak also make sure barb is is for a ID hose size and not made for OD hose size. As far as the pump goes they do offer replacement rollers for them but a lot of the time the housing roller bore is what is worn out. If you think your pump is worn there is a spec for the pump bore be sure to check that before you spend the money on new rollers that might not help.

PaulN

· #39 · 30 d ago

Could the pressure relief valve be in backwards?

Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #40 · 29 d ago

Ranger518 said:
No you should not need to go to a larger size barb I have seen older barbs rust and cause them to be smaller and leak also make sure barb is is for a ID hose size and not made for OD hose size. As far as the pump goes they do offer replacement rollers for them but a lot of the time the housing roller bore is what is worn out. If you think your pump is worn there is a spec for the pump bore be sure to check that before you spend the money on new rollers that might not help.

These are new barbs but they are plastic. One of the barbs is on a quick release connector I installed to the suction hose to be able to quickly disconnect it from the pump.

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