Sprayer plumbing questions

1946 Views 57 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Catherine07, 5 d ago

Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · 2 mo ago

I have an old 70's vintage Walsh 26' boom sprayer that used to be my grandpa's. It's 200 gallon I think.

On the bottom of the tank there is a 1" barb, presumably for the suction out of the tank, and a 1/2" barb, presumably for the recirculator.

On the manifold, there is a regulator with a 1" barb on it (and filter), next is two valves with red handles (1/2" barbs), and two valves with green screw handles with 1/2" barbs.

Now on the PTO pump, there is a 1/2" barb and a 1" barb fitting.

So I'm really confused about how this is supposed to go together. I would have thought that there should be 2 x 1" barbs on the pump, with one side of it sucking from the tank, and the other side of the pump sending it to the manifold's 1" barb. And one of the 1/2" barbs on the manifold would be the recirculator that sends it back to the 1/2" barb on the bottom of the tank.

I've included a picture of the manifold.

How do I properly set this up? I don't have any experience with big sprayers like this.

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AndyH359

· #2 · 2 mo ago

As a general rule of thumb, you want the suction to the pump to be a larger diameter than the discharge. At worst, equal size. So consider anything that is 1" to be on the suction side of the pump. Anything with 1/2" size on the discharge side of the pump.

A lot of setups have the pressure relief valve going back to the pump suction line, not directly back to the tank or recirc line.

The green valves - As you suspected, one is like the recirc line. The other may be the supply line from the pump to the manifold. I did not see in your list where the 'goes in' barb was for your manifold. I suspect it is a 1/2" barb somewhere.

The two red valves are probably quick closing valves feeding the left and right sides of the boom. If you only had one line back to the boom nozzles, you would have an uneven pressure distribution at your nozzles by the time you got to the last nozzle in the line (and thus uneven flow out of the nozzles.) So run two lines back to the booms (left and right) and try to tee the line at the center of each boom section so as to minimize the number of nozzles in series.

Good luck and have fun with this!

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Ranger518

· #3 · 2 mo ago

I like to feed the manifold with the pump pressure then use the pressure regulator to dump the pressure back to the tank bottom for agitation. This allows for better consistency with psi and agitation if you are opening and closing the boom valves without dead heading the PTO pump.
From your photo it seams that they were feeding the pressure regulator with the PTO pump and manual using the gate valves for agitation and or possibly a hand wand and pressure control. I would set it up the way you would like it not necessarily how it was from factory.

Ranger518

· #4 · 2 mo ago

this is how I prefer to plumb my sprayers. This diagram only showed 1 boom but you can add as many as your pump will carry.

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Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #5 · 2 mo ago

Well, now I'm super confused.

AndyH359 said:
As a general rule of thumb, you want the suction to the pump to be a larger diameter than the discharge. At worst, equal size. So consider anything that is 1" to be on the suction side of the pump. Anything with 1/2" size on the discharge side of the pump.

A lot of setups have the pressure relief valve going back to the pump suction line, not directly back to the tank or recirc line.

From the tank there are only two ports, both on the bottom of the tank (nothing going into the top of the tank). There's a 1" nipple coming out of the bottom of the tank at the very center. This is the suction. Then there is a 1/2" fitting also on the bottom of the tank, with a recirculating valve on the inside of the tank.

So on my manifold, is the large 1" nipple with the pressure release valve supposed to go back to the 1" suction line and actually "T" into that before the pump? But the strainer is on that side too, so why would the spray be distributed through the entire manifold and booms before getting to the strainer? I was assuming the 1" nipple on my manifold was the supply side, but now I'm confused.

The green valves - As you suspected, one is like the recirc line. The other may be the supply line from the pump to the manifold. I did not see in your list where the 'goes in' barb was for your manifold. I suspect it is a 1/2" barb somewhere.

It wasn't installed in this picture, but the green valve on the left is where the pressure gauge screws on to. I thought the 'goes in' barb was the big 1" one. It didn't make sense to me to have a shut off valve on the supply side of the manifold, because if that valve was shut off when you were trying to pump there would be no pressure relief.

The two red valves are probably quick closing valves feeding the left and right sides of the boom. If you only had one line back to the boom nozzles, you would have an uneven pressure distribution at your nozzles by the time you got to the last nozzle in the line (and thus uneven flow out of the nozzles.) So run two lines back to the booms (left and right) and try to tee the line at the center of each boom section so as to minimize the number of nozzles in series.

There's three booms on this sprayer...a center boom that's 10' wide (7 nozzles spaced 19" apart) and two fold-out booms 8' each (5 nozzles spaced 19" apart) for a total of 26'. I don't know how the original lines were run because they've been cut, but the center boom had a Tee in the middle and the tubing on the two outside boom arms are both cut at the ends. So the way I have it set up right now is three separate feeds. The left red valve sending flow to the left boom, the right red valve sending flow to the right boom, and one of the green valves sending flow to the center boom.

Do you think the two outside boom arms were Tee'd together in the middle? I know the center boom did not supply the outside booms, because the nozzles at each end of the center boom are terminal (L, not a T).

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Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #6 · 2 mo ago

Ranger518 said:
I like to feed the manifold with the pump pressure then use the pressure regulator to dump the pressure back to the tank bottom for agitation. This allows for better consistency with psi and agitation if you are opening and closing the boom valves without dead heading the PTO pump.
From your photo it seams that they were feeding the pressure regulator with the PTO pump and manual using the gate valves for agitation and or possibly a hand wand and pressure control. I would set it up the way you would like it not necessarily how it was from factory.

How it's set up right now is most likely how my grandpa probably had it set up. I can't even tell you how I want it set up because I don't know anything about these. To me it seemed simple...tank to pump, pump to manifold, manifold sends some back to the tank for recirc and some to the booms. I don't see where the pressure relief valve actually is dumping anything back to the tank.

Ranger518

· #7 · 2 mo ago

Hayjosh said:
How it's set up right now is most likely how my grandpa probably had it set up. I can't even tell you how I want it set up because I don't know anything about these. To me it seemed simple...tank to pump, pump to manifold, manifold sends some back to the tank for recirc and some to the booms. I don't see where the pressure relief valve actually is dumping anything back to the tank.

yea I have Never seen one plumed the way yours seams to be as I don’t see how the pressure reducing valve set up would work very well especially when you have booms shut off I would think it would dead head the pump quite a bit causing early failures of pump.

Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #8 · 2 mo ago

Ranger518 said:
yea I have Never seen one plumed the way yours seams to be as I don’t see how the pressure reducing valve set up would work very well especially when you have booms shut off I would think it would dead head the pump quite a bit causing early failures of pump.

By dead heading the pump are you referring to the pump has nowhere to go with the pressure when nothing is spraying?

Ranger518

· #9 · 2 mo ago

If it was me I would split your boom to 2 sections right and left do to you only having 2 true boom control valves. And plum it like the pic above but with only the bypass going back to the tank for agitation into the bottom. And just get rid of the 2 gate valves that are plumed into it as it appears that somebody has modified it to work for their s pacific needs in the past.

PaulN

· #10 · 2 mo ago

The diagram shown by Ranger518 is correct.
First of all, the strainer goes between the tank and pump. Your pic has it between the red valves and the pressure regulator.
One side of the pressure regulator can be connected to the manifold or anywhere on the pressure side of the pump, and the other side, back to the tank. it doesn't matter if it's top or bottom. As mentioned by Andy H359, some setups have the pressure relief valve going back to the pump suction line. Either way will work.
The 2 red valves go to right and left boom.
One green valve is for agitation, most likely connected to the bottom of the tank. I don't know what the second green valve was used for.
You will be needing a pressure gauge as well, anywhere on the manifold.
Good luck

Paul N

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Ranger518

· #11 · 2 mo ago

Hayjosh said:
By dead heading the pump are you referring to the pump has nowhere to go with the pressure when nothing is spraying?

Correct. if you have the pressure valve plumbed like the above pic with all booms shut off it will bypass and dump back into the tank for higher agitation and no dead head or pressure spikes.

Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #12 · 2 mo ago

Ranger518 said:
Correct. if you have the pressure valve plumbed like the above pic with all booms shut off it will bypass and dump back into the tank for higher agitation and no dead head or pressure spikes.

In the way grandpa had the manifold set up, if the recirculating valve was the very last of the green valves and all the booms were closed, wouldn't it just go straight past all the boom valves and recirc into the tank at higher agitation, as you're saying?

I was looking at some other videos and set ups of these Walsh sprayers and none of them have a bypass back to the tank or suction line, other than the recirc line.

Also, my uncle says grandpa had a hand sprayer so one of the green valves was probably for that. Best I can tell in the original set up, the left and right booms (10 nozzles) must have teed together and went into one of the red valves and the center boom (7 nozzles) went into its own red valve.

Grandpa hobbled a lot of stuff together. There was no length of baling wire that was wasted.

Ranger518

· #13 · 2 mo ago

Hayjosh said:
In the way grandpa had the manifold set up, if the recirculating valve was the very last of the green valves and all the booms were closed, wouldn't it just go straight past all the boom valves and recirc into the tank at higher agitation, as you're saying?

I was looking at some other videos and set ups of these Walsh sprayers and none of them have a bypass back to the tank or suction line, other than the recirc line.

Also, my uncle says grandpa had a hand sprayer so one of the green valves was probably for that. Best I can tell in the original set up, the left and right booms (10 nozzles) must have teed together and went into one of the red valves and the center boom (7 nozzles) went into its own red valve.

Grandpa hobbled a lot of stuff together. There was no length of baling wire that was wasted.

Yes if it was open it would recirculate back to tank but I think you will have pressure to your nozzle issues do to the flow is going to take the path of least resistance and want to go back to tank then want to go to spray boom with full pressure when trying to spray. Yea you could also open and close it but that would be a pain and cause inconsistent pressures. With the cost of herbicide I like to know that my spryer is working and doing the best job it can with little effort from me other then setting it up at the beginning of the day and only needing to turn the booms on and off as needed with pump running and not having to worry about pressure spikes and drops.

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JRehberg

· #14 · 2 mo ago

Ditto what Ranger has shared above. I would also recommend plumbing a gauge on the boom line. I have one gauge on the teejet controller in the cab, one on the manifold and one on the boom line. The cab and manifold gauges register the same but the boom pressure is always 3-4 psi higher at the boom. Haven't figured out why but glad to know. Also, once you get everything set up make sure the throttling valve is operating correctly; ie you should see minimal pressure change when turning the booms on and off.

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Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #15 · 2 mo ago

JRehberg said:
Ditto what Ranger has shared above. I would also recommend plumbing a gauge on the boom line. I have one gauge on the teejet controller in the cab, one on the manifold and one on the boom line. The cab and manifold gauges register the same but the boom pressure is always 3-4 psi higher at the boom. Haven't figured out why but glad to know. Also, once you get everything set up make sure the throttling valve is operating correctly; ie you should see minimal pressure change when turning the booms on and off.

Is the throttling valve the one on the far left?

Ranger518

· #16 · 2 mo ago

Hayjosh said:
Is the throttling valve the one on the far left?

Technically yes. It could be called throttling valve, pressure regulator, or pressure relief valve kinda depends what location it is installed and how it is plumbed.

Ranger518

· #17 · 2 mo ago

I drew out a quick diagram on a simple good way for you to plumb your sprayer with the exzistings parts you have. I would recommend replacing the relief valve with a t jet valve do to who know what shape your is in.

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Hayjosh

Discussion Starter · #18 · 2 mo ago

Ranger518 said:
I drew out a quick diagram on a simple good way for you to plumb your sprayer with the exzistings parts you have. I would recommend replacing the relief valve with a t jet valve do to who know what shape your is in.

I appreciate you taking the time to diagram that out. That is almost how I was going to run it, with the exception of the regulator, so I will switch that around. I am also going to put a filter in between the sprayer and pump.

I would rather have the two boom extensions be on their own valve and the center boom on the other valve. The reason being that I can fold the extensions back and shut them off if I needed to spray a narrow area in between obstacles or trees, etc, especially in my pastures. But that would put 7 jets on the center boom valve and 10 jets on the outside boom valve, but are you concerned that would create too much of a pressure differential? I understand the rationale to splitting them but then it becomes less functional for me. My alternative would be to just add a 3rd valve and all the booms are controlled individually, but still with 7 jets on center boom and 5 jets on L and R booms.

Ranger518

· #19 · 2 mo ago

Hayjosh said:
I appreciate you taking the time to diagram that out. That is almost how I was going to run it, with the exception of the regulator, so I will switch that around. I am also going to put a filter in between the sprayer and pump.

I would rather have the two boom extensions be on their own valve and the center boom on the other valve. The reason being that I can fold the extensions back and shut them off if I needed to spray a narrow area in between obstacles or trees, etc, especially in my pastures. But that would put 7 jets on the center boom valve and 10 jets on the outside boom valve, but are you concerned that would create too much of a pressure differential? I understand the rationale to splitting them but then it becomes less functional for me. My alternative would be to just add a 3rd valve and all the booms are controlled individually, but still with 7 jets on center boom and 5 jets on L and R booms.

You can plumb you booms to work that way with no issue. The bypass/regulator will help Compensate for pressure difference. But you may need to adjust it slightly which is very easy to do on the fly by reaching back and adjusting the it but if your are just doing a small area and it only changes a few PSI I would not worry to much about it. A strainer in the suction line after the tank and before the pump is a really good idea. I run 2 filters on my sprayers a 50 mesh at the tank and a 100 mesh at the manifold seams to work well for me. I also have 100 mesh filters at each spray nozzle and never have any nozzle clog issues.

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AndyH359

· #20 · 2 mo ago

Hayjosh said:
By dead heading the pump are you referring to the pump has nowhere to go with the pressure when nothing is spraying?

The mechanical engineer in me is going to come out for a bit on this one. You should always have some type of pressure relief device on the pressure side of a pump, and in particular, for ANY kind of positive displacement pump.

Roller pumps are positive displacement pumps. That means they will push X amount of water for each rotation of the input shaft. The pump will create pressure until it can push this X amount of water somewhere. So if you dead head the pump (meaning shut ALL the valves on the pump outlet), the system will find your weakest point and push X amount of water out there. Some options include 1) rupturing a hose or fitting 2) breaking something internal to pump so that it no longer is moving X amount of water 3) stall your tractor/motor (the energy source driving the pump 4) installing a pressure relief valve on the pressure side so that the water can move, even if it is just back to the suction side of the pump.

So however you design your system, make absolutely sure for safety reasons that the pressure relief valve can never be isolated from the pressure side of the system so that none of the other three bad things can happen. (Just like you never plug the pressure/temperature relief valve on your hot water tank.)

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