Turn the baler so you don't kick the bales downhill.... unless you have an impressive stop at the bottom.

Dollar for dollar most folks want rounds at the going discount price no matter the type of grass. Many more buy rounds because it 'saves' money. 4x5 is the magic number in our parts. 4x4 are common and tend to be frowned upon while the 4x5.5 are too big for the average buyer.

Roll them and then unroll them on flat ground. Rebale with the square baler. The problem here is I doubt you will come out ahead unless it's a lot of ground. If you hire the baling done, even then I'm not sure you come out ahead. Save your money on a baler, fence it in and run cows.

 

School me on round bales, potential profitability, targeted market, best grass to go into round bales, etc.

Don't make round bales, is the short answer .

1st cutting rounds sell for around $80 -$90 ton, while 2nd-4th cuttings $100-$110 a ton. Where as small squares 1st - $200 a ton, 2nd and beyond $240+ a ton (selling mine for $280 a ton right now). Naturally, this is in MY area and YMMV.

For the math, this year I only sold/ or will sell about 100 tons of hay of 2nd - 4th cuttings at a $150 (or better) ton price difference, that's $15,000 and 25 tons of 1st cutting sold as SS bales, that's another $2,500 (using just $100 advantage over RB). Didn't take me long to figure out that I could pay for the Kuhn system/new hay shed.

BTW, sold about 100 tons of RB this year, because hay shed wasn't done in time to make SS bales. I'm looking at selling about 225 -250 tons of hay next year as SS bales (I do about 350 tons total, got to feed the bovine lawn mowers in the winter ). Pencils out to about $30K+ price advantage as SS bales.

I consider myself a small fry.

HTH

Larry

 

Don't make round bales, is the short answer .

1st cutting rounds sell for around $80 -$90 ton, while 2nd-4th cuttings $100-$110 a ton. Where as small squares 1st - $200 a ton, 2nd and beyond $240+ a ton (selling mine for $280 a ton right now). Naturally, this is in MY area and YMMV.

For the math, this year I only sold/ or will sell about 100 tons of hay of 2nd - 4th cuttings at a $150 (or better) ton price difference, that's $15,000 and 25 tons of 1st cutting sold as SS bales, that's another $2,500 (using just $100 advantage over RB). Didn't take me long to figure out that I could pay for the Kuhn system/new hay shed.

BTW, sold about 100 tons of RB this year, because hay shed wasn't done in time to make SS bales. I'm looking at selling about 225 -250 tons of hay next year as SS bales (I do about 350 tons total, got to feed the bovine lawn mowers in the winter ). Pencils out to about $30K+ price advantage as SS bales.

I consider myself a small fry.

HTH

Larry

Agree with Larry on all fronts - if you can make small squares work and you've got a market for more, definitely keep doing those if you want your operation to be profitable. One of the advantages of round bales is reduced labor, as you're not doing anything by hand.

 

If you decide to do round bales I guess there's a couple of things.

If it's not a lot of acres in rounds, I'd be looking for a decent used baler. If you're a good mechanic/welder etc......you can get by starting at about $5000 for a twine tie baler.

Belt condition is paramount. Spensive to replace belts.

Look at the tires, lots of folks forget about tires when buying stuff. The modern balers take weird non-standard tires, and they're HIGH DOLLAR.

Try to get the seller to run the baler for you. Doesn't have to be baling, but at least turning. Use an IR thermometer to check for hot bearings. While not absolutely dispositive, it's a good indicator. A bad bearing will burn the baler, tractor, and hay meadow to the ground. I don't know about square baling, but round baling generates a lot of flammable fines which ignite at the smallest spark.

Match your horsepower requirements with your tractor. Generally a baler set up with a 540 PTO is a sign it will run with less than mega horses.

Twine tie vs. net wrap. Lot of people like net wrap. Looks prettier, and hauls without a lotta crap flying off the bale as you're motoring down the blacktop.

Find a baler that will make up to 4x6 bales. You don't have to make them that big, but it gives you options. When I have to buy hay by the semi load, I have to have 4x5's in order to fit on my trailer, and be within legal height limits. I have a float, not a lowboy or drop deck. Larger diameter bales force me to space the bales out on the deck so's I can stay legal. It cuts down on what I can haul. Guys with drop decks can haul larger diameter bales with ease.

Where you buy a baler matters somewhat. A private owner sale is generally better (you can see how the dood keeps his equipment). Auction is ok if you're good at spotting glaring problems. Equipment dealers will often buy at auction, steam clean the equipment, and put it on the line. It's always a risk buying used stuff, no matter where you buy it. Just assume something is wrong with it, and I guess live with it.

Around here, I don't see a lot of small squares runnin' down the highway. It's mostly all round bales. The horse folks here feed rounds. They finally figured out it's easier, and doesn't require covered storage. I suppose there's a bit more waste, but being able to throw out a bale with the tractor beats moving all that stuff by hand. I'm probably not really qualified to comment on this I guess, cause I feed cows.

Anyways, hope it helps.

 

Maybe I'm sorta qualified to talk horsies

Guess this could maybe qualify as half a horse :lol:

We got two of these I heard somewhere that they can keep coyotes away from yer cows

I can get real lame brained, and run off and do stuff without really thinking.

One of the guys where K'kins works was wanting to get rid of his 2 donkeys. Free (shoulda known better )

Yeah, they do sorta keep the coyotes away...….BUT THEY'LL CHASE A CALF DOWN TOO :angry: And, although we didn't actually see it, we're pretty sure Sarge (the bigger one) killed a calf this summer. I thought I'd broken him of chasing calves. Caught him at it while putting out bales, and chased him all over the dry lot with the tractor. Had him cornered, and dam near ran him thru with the bale spike. K'kins hollered to stop. Boy was I HOT!!!!! :angry: Nobody else could have stopped me. We got neighbors across the highway, and they probably think I'm gonna kill something when I get to yelling at the donkeys, or sometimes the dog, or sometimes at the steel when something goes wrong with the welding.

To be fair, most of the momma cows will keep the donkeys away from their calves, and do it pretty aggressively. But a guy doesn't wanna depend on that.

Thought we had a taker for the pair, but the lady crapped out. Next option is taking them to the sale barn. At this point, we keep them separated from the cows, and they do fine.

I'm rambling on, and forgot this thread is about round bales...………….

Donkeys eat 'em just fine. Prairie Hay, Johnson Grass, and Haygrazer (yeah, ain't lyin' )

 

Bill, for operators our size (you and me) there is no money in rounds. Period. I only do a few and that is for my convenience. May do none next year. Like when my square baler thrower went on the fritz at 5:30 and I wanted to finish the field, or another day when I ran out of wagons. I picked up a used JD457 silage baler several years ago with 5K through it. Figured I could use it til I was too senile to do so. So far, the senility is running faster than the depreciation on the machine!! Any way, if you decide adding a round baler is for you, I would go with the mega pickup and net without question and I think a JD457 or 458 with 3-7K rolls would be a good purchase for you. I am getting 65$ a roll for mixed grass at the barn. Good hay, well made. 4 x5. Doubt you can get that in your neighborhood but maybe you can. Most of the horse folks here have been bit by bad rolls and there are plenty of them.

 

Agree with Larry on all fronts - if you can make small squares work and you've got a market for more, definitely keep doing those if you want your operation to be profitable. One of the advantages of round bales is reduced labor, as you're not doing anything by hand.

Bingo. Round bales great for 1 man opps.
I work 95% alone and have minimal inside storage, so its really my only choice.
4x5 is the size to go with. I heavily suggest net wrap as opposed to twine if they have to sit outside.
I do have 2 horse customers, but since the bales are large, many horse people are afraid of them. One once told me "you bale up a dead rabbit and the round bale gets botulism (or some other disease) and my horses get sick, whos going to be responsible? I can tell whats in a small square because I can pick it up and smell/feel/touch the hay before I feed it".
Had a "horse" customer once who was so cheap. She also said "I dont really care if the bales are all that good, its just for the horse, and goats to nibble on during the day". After about 2 years, she started buying from someone else. I asked her why and she said she didnt think the hay was very good.
Have a really nice British gal for a customer for 3 years. She pays me $100/bale delivered to her feeder. Uses a hay hut and it works great! She buys 18 bales per year and pays me a little extra to store them, too. Wish I could get about 20 more customers like that....
hay hut is the best thing for round bales since net wrap!!
Right, wrong or indifferent, that's an example of what some customers say trying to sell 4x5's to horse people.
best application for rounds is herds of cattle.
I have a niche market and sell 90% to the mushroom growers.

 

Here at least if it's too steep to square bale, it's way too steep to round bale. Backing up and jackknifing to try to reduce the number of bales rolling away on steep ground is a huge pain.

You don't have to fill your kicker wagons as full. Nice thing square baling is if you pick the right gear or have power shift there is no need to push the clutch in on the hill and risk a run away or a rough réengagement.

 

I would buy a good used round roller.....twine tie, can buy them in the cheap. Probably could get into a very good one for 8k or less......
For me, I make 54" rolls for horse hay and 60" rolls for cows.....
I can't pencil it out very good, but there is no way I would be without one.....
What are ya gonna do if it's gonna rain tomorrow starting at three, so you have a very narrow window in which to get it up, without a doubt that's the number one reason for owning a round roller even if you are just resale.....it's very fast, and the bales don't have to come in that day.....
What are ya gonna do when it's rained on your crop for 5-6 days in a row....gotta get it up and out unless ur gonna strike a match, nothing beats a roller in that situation, it's cow market hay.
What about ifn ur SS baler goes down and you have only today to get it up......roller to the rescue.
For me and my operation, I couldn't imagine not having the ability to roll.....while I may not like the ROI I get, at some point I have to minimize my losses and a roller will do that.....
But I wouldn't break the bank buying one.....it'll make you mad everytime you make a payment

 

Way more money in squares, and if you dont like the hill for squares, watch out for rounds lol. Keep doing what you are doing. In my area rounds are $50-60 a ton.

 

I would buy a good used round roller.....twine tie, can buy them in the cheap. Probably could get into a very good one for 8k or less......
For me, I make 54" rolls for horse hay and 60" rolls for cows.....
I can't pencil it out very good, but there is no way I would be without one.....
What are ya gonna do if it's gonna rain tomorrow starting at three, so you have a very narrow window in which to get it up, without a doubt that's the number one reason for owning a round roller even if you are just resale.....it's very fast, and the bales don't have to come in that day.....
What are ya gonna do when it's rained on your crop for 5-6 days in a row....gotta get it up and out unless ur gonna strike a match, nothing beats a roller in that situation, it's cow market hay.
What about ifn ur SS baler goes down and you have only today to get it up......roller to the rescue.
For me and my operation, I couldn't imagine not having the ability to roll.....while I may not like the ROI I get, at some point I have to minimize my losses and a roller will do that.....
But I wouldn't break the bank buying one.....it'll make you mad everytime you make a payment

Exactly. Sometimes a little pie beats the heck out of no pie.

Regards, Mike

 

Here at least if it's too steep to square bale, it's way too steep to round bale. Backing up and jackknifing to try to reduce the number of bales rolling away on steep ground is a huge pain.

I'm so used backing up at an angle to find a place to drop a bale on hilly ground that, a few years ago, I was custom baling on some flat ground and I couldn't help myself--I backed up and angled every bale even though I "knew" I didn't have to!

Ralph

 

I would buy a good used round roller.....twine tie, can buy them in the cheap. Probably could get into a very good one for 8k or less......
For me, I make 54" rolls for horse hay and 60" rolls for cows.....
I can't pencil it out very good, but there is no way I would be without one.....
What are ya gonna do if it's gonna rain tomorrow starting at three, so you have a very narrow window in which to get it up, without a doubt that's the number one reason for owning a round roller even if you are just resale.....it's very fast, and the bales don't have to come in that day.....
What are ya gonna do when it's rained on your crop for 5-6 days in a row....gotta get it up and out unless ur gonna strike a match, nothing beats a roller in that situation, it's cow market hay.
What about ifn ur SS baler goes down and you have only today to get it up......roller to the rescue.
For me and my operation, I couldn't imagine not having the ability to roll.....while I may not like the ROI I get, at some point I have to minimize my losses and a roller will do that.....
But I wouldn't break the bank buying one.....it'll make you mad everytime you make a payment

Lotta truth in this.

Have you looked at those machines that convert rolls to squares? Pretty slick. You set a round on it, and it unrolls it and feeds it via a conveyor belt into your square baler. If you had a place to store your rounds inside, you could then convert to as many squares as you need when you need them. Could be the best of both worlds but I dont know how much they cost. As with most things these days its probably high.

 

I'm so used backing up at an angle to find a place to drop a bale on hilly ground that, a few years ago, I was custom baling on some flat ground and I couldn't help myself--I backed up and angled every bale even though I "knew" I didn't have to!

Ralph

After busting fences twice I have a complex about this too.

 

There's nothing like dumping 8 bales, and watching them go into the fence, and push it about half way over :lol:

I keep rounds in a fenced lot to keep the cows away from them.

Sometimes, the first row I dump on the North side is a tad close to the fence, and off it goes like a bulldozer There's a spot that tilts the trailer axles just enuff downhill that they'll roll about 20 feet. There is no cure for moronity (is that a word?)

Then the stupid things are jammed into the barbed wire, and hang up when you move them later to feed 'em

K'kins as she sashays in the door: "I see you broke the fence again" ………...then she just glides on thru the kitchen without another word.

 

There's nothing like dumping 8 bales, and watching them go into the fence, and push it about half way over :lol:

I keep rounds in a fenced lot to keep the cows away from them.

Sometimes, the first row I dump on the North side is a tad close to the fence, and off it goes like a bulldozer There's a spot that tilts the trailer axles just enuff downhill that they'll roll about 20 feet. There is no cure for moronity (is that a word?)

Then the stupid things are jammed into the barbed wire, and hang up when you move them later to feed 'em

lift arm bushing23-1.jpg

K'kins as she sashays in the door: "I see you broke the fence again" ………...then she just glides on thru the kitchen without another word. art-353-mattwadeillo-200x0.jpg

K'kins short for cucks?

 

I'm selling good first cutting for $50/bale, other stuff that was made a little later is $45/bale, last of the first cutting is $40/bale, most if not all is spoken for and they come and get it.

1st cutting rounds average around 800lbs.

Later cuttings start at $75/bale and thats all spoken for, later cuttings run right around 1000lbs/bale.

Roughly 60% of the first is going to horses. All of my later cuttings is being fed to horses. Won't even need to goto the hay auction this winter.

 

K'kins short for cucks?

K'kins = Kelly + kins (Kellykins is my pet name for her)

Never heard the word "cucks". Looked it up, and was sorta surprised by the definition I must be getting old :lol:

 

Oh i was way off...

 

I do have 2 horse customers, but since the bales are large, many horse people are afraid of them. One once told me "you bale up a dead rabbit and the round bale gets botulism (or some other disease) and my horses get sick, whos going to be responsible? I can tell whats in a small square because I can pick it up and smell/feel/touch the hay before I feed it".

Never ran into that yet, least nobody has ever said anything about a dead critter in a bale.

 

Never ran into that yet, least nobody has ever said anything about a dead critter in a bale.

Had a friend feeding my hay in rd hay feeder and he found dead **** in a bale.I would be there is alot of dead critters in hay bales.If I see it I throw it out of the windrow before baling.Tub grinder prly hides alot of evidence of dead critters here,lol.

 

Usually the folks that feed balage to unvaccinated horses that have botulism issues. Don’t hear of issues in dry hay.

 

Never ran into that yet, least nobody has ever said anything about a dead critter in a bale.

neither have I.
I sort of thought the guy was being a little dramatic. However, it's no secret we run over snakes, small (and sometimes large) mammals, turtles and the like.
It did make me wonder that happens to livestock that eats hay affected by a rotting carcass that gets bales up though.

 

neither have I.
I sort of thought the guy was being a little dramatic. However, it's no secret we run over snakes, small (and sometimes large) mammals, turtles and the like.
It did make me wonder that happens to livestock that eats hay affected by a rotting carcass that gets bales up though.

Nope, every serious horse person here in my neck of the woods that feeds round bales vaccinates for botulism, Trust me we have some serious competition horse people here. The good vets know which one to do, there are several different strains of botulism. .

 

Nope, every serious horse person here in my neck of the woods that feeds round bales vaccinates for botulism, Trust me we have some serious competition horse people here. The good vets know which one to do, there are several different strains of botulism. .

Me too. This guy owned a boarding operation and I think he was trying to imply he didnt know the vaccination status of all the horses he boards (although come to think of it, it probably would be good to know vaccination status for the good of the other horses!)