Hay & Forage Forum banner
1 - 20 of 61 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone. I am about to make the plunge and switch to a rotary rake from a v-rake. I am debating whether to go with a Krone 710 or 810 versus a Claas 750 or 1750.

My questions are:

Transport - our operation is fairly compact and contiguous, so on-road transport is not a critical factor, whereas height can be. Am I going to regret going with tandem transport (710 or 750) over the folding transport offered by the alternative 810/1750 models? The cost saving is neglibile for the tandem transport models it seems, so it comes down to flexibility or quality (i.e. does the single beam support of the fold up model give the edge on strength?).

It seems to me there is little difference between the two brands, however the Claas dealer, formerly a Krone dealer, implied that the Claas rakes were holding up slightly better in adverse conditions. While I don't plan on roughing up the rake, I do not want to have to change equipment out for a good long time. Does anyone out there have experience with both brands and have a preference?

We fight the weather often and need the ability to 1) bump over a row, and 2) bust up a row in the event of untimely rain. Can the rotary rakes bump a row with decent volume? If I raked two passes together (e.g. 44ish feet), will I still be able to bump over a row? Have any of you tried tedding out a rotary formed row? Tedding out a row twisted up by a v-rake is a nightmare, and I hope a rotary rake will give me a slight edge if other options fail.

Has anyone out there managed to bust up a Krone or Claas on heavy volume, if so, what were the conditions? I think my neighbor was busting his Kuhn rotary on irrigated triticale and I am wondering if that was just extreme conditions (rough fields, high ground speed), or if volume can be a problem for rotary rakes.

Lastly, our 4[sup]th [/sup]cutting is typically very light and heavy short stemmed alfalfa. Am I going to see significant loss with a rotary over a v-rake? My worst fear with a rotary is leaving half of my late cutting in the field.

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
15,815 Posts
Hi everyone. I am about to make the plunge and switch to a rotary rake from a v-rake. I am debating whether to go with a Krone 710 or 810 versus a Claas 750 or 1750.

My questions are:
Have any of you tried tedding out a rotary formed row? Tedding out a row twisted up by a v-rake is a nightmare, and I hope a rotary rake will give me a slight edge if other options fail.

Has anyone out there managed to bust up a Krone or Claas on heavy volume, if so, what were the conditions? I think my neighbor was busting his Kuhn rotary on irrigated triticale and I am wondering if that was just extreme conditions (rough fields, high ground speed), or if volume can be a problem for rotary rakes.

Lastly, our 4[sup]th [/sup]cutting is typically very light and heavy short stemmed alfalfa. Am I going to see significant loss with a rotary over a v-rake? My worst fear with a rotary is leaving half of my late cutting in the field.

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!
I know nothing about Krone/Claas personally, but I do have a Pequea Rotary Rake. If you have bogey type wheels and axles, rough ground is not a problem and volume is not a problem with good rotary rakes.

Yes, you can scatter a tedded row without any problem by simply removing the curtain.

Rotary Rakes are the most gentle of all rakes with alfalfa.....you form your rows with high gears and low rpm's so that the arms sweep in a very gentle slow motion.

To scatter a formed row, remove the curtain and increase your rpm's somewhat. These rakes are very stout if you get a good brand....and I think Krone is that and probably Claas also. I am extremely happy with my Pequea....american made and the manufacturer stands by their products.

Regards, Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
877 Posts
I wasn't aware they were made here. Why are there not any rotary rakes down here. Their 24TS looks just like I need. I have a JD700 (Vermeer 23) but it is a pain to put more than two windrows together. I was going to trade for a new Vermeer but the dealer insulted me with my trade in. He wanted the rake more than I did ... He still has it sitting on his lot too.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
15,815 Posts
I wasn't aware they were made here. Why are there not any rotary rakes down here.
I really do not know why there are not alot of RR in the South....when I bought mine last spring my neighbors wanted to know what it was. When they saw it operating they liked it. I had it shipped out of PA from Zimmermans and still saved $1500 rather than buying/ordering one here locally. One reason maybe in my area for few Rotaries is that not alot of people here raise quality hay.....most raise KY 31 fescue which is basically crap, but it will grow on the sorriest of soils and withstands overgrazing well.

Regards, Mike
 

·
“Not a real farmer” farmer
Joined
·
10,991 Posts
Pequea is kind of a "regional" company. They seem to be popular in the northeast. They build some really nice trailers, too. You can call them direct and talk to a live person when you have questions. Their plant is only ~25 miles from me. Kind of nice buying from a PA made company right here in the USA.I would bet there's some foreign made components in there, but at least some/most of it is made here.
When I was looking at tedders late this summer, I was set on a new Krone or Claas. I think they make GREAT tedders, but I settled on a lightly used Pequea TT4000 4 basket tedder.
One nice feature it has is that before it folds up for transport, it tilts and lifts a little so you can go over a rough/rocky area without dragging it through the junk. Some of the other more expensive tedders have that,. too. Got it for 1/2 the price of new.
All said, I would have rather have the Claas or Krone, but the Pequea actually looks sturdier, just not as fancy as the Germans.
Sorry to get off the rake topic, but thought it might help you with the Pequea vs. German made rakes.
 

·
MrBaleMan
Joined
·
325 Posts
I really do not know why there are not alot of RR in the South....when I bought mine last spring my neighbors wanted to know what it was. When they saw it operating they liked it. I had it shipped out of PA from Zimmermans and still saved $1500 rather than buying/ordering one here locally. One reason maybe in my area for few Rotaries is that not alot of people here raise quality hay.....most raise KY 31 fescue which is basically crap, but it will grow on the sorriest of soils and withstands overgrazing well.

Regards, Mike
Mike I will have to disagree with the fact that K31 fescue is crap. Yes it does grow in almost every place you can plant it which is a VERY good advantage...BUT.....when Fescue is put up early....around here in May. It is just as good as Brome. I dont have the research info saved but if you go to the Kansas State University AG website. There are a couple of pieces of research on there regarding this. Haha. Its kinda a pet peav of mine because around her a lot of ppl put it down but when its put up correctly. It is good grass. Now do I sell much fescue, no. I only sell high quality stuff. I keep the fescue for my cattle. Unless someone wants it, then I will sell some.

Back to the posted question.......I lack knowledge on these models but I will tell you I demo'd a new Rhino rotary rake this fall that they are looking at producing in the US. My old rotary rake is a single rotor.....works great on everything......just takes a long time because it is small and can only flip one row at a time. Thus why in most cases I use my High Capacity wheel rake. But the rotary rake comes in handy at times. I was interested in going to a high volume rotary rake so I demo this unit on 4th cutting alfalfa this fall. It did leave some in the field. Now this is a Big 3pt tandem rake. So not a trailed model. I didnt buy it. I wasnt impressed with the windrow it made on the short alfalfa and the amount of material left behind. Which is what I really wanted the rake for to increase drying time. I'm going with a tedder instead.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
15,815 Posts
Mike I will have to disagree with the fact that K31 fescue is crap. Yes it does grow in almost every place you can plant it which is a VERY good advantage...BUT.....when Fescue is put up early....around here in May. It is just as good as Brome. I dont have the research info saved but if you go to the Kansas State University AG website. There are a couple of pieces of research on there regarding this. Haha. Its kinda a pet peav of mine because around her a lot of ppl put it down but when its put up correctly. It is good grass. Now do I sell much fescue, no. I only sell high quality stuff. I keep the fescue for my cattle. Unless someone wants it, then I will sell some.
From Clemson University.....most(90%+) of KY 31 fescue is endophyte infected...and has many negative effects in cattle and horses. I have first hand knowledge of these facts as a former beef producer and a broodmare foaler....I have foaled out several hundred broodmares. JMO... I will add that if you can establish a endophyte free stand of fescue, then it would be much better. I also understand that many of the endophyte free seed varieties are very difficult to establish and are not nearly as persistent as endophyte infected fescue. Probably will someday improve greatly.

http://www.caf.wvu.e...phtye/story.htm

Regards, Mike
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
15,815 Posts
I still have my hillsides in KY 31 fescue, which I round bale and sell to the local zoo. It is hard to beat on holding the hillsides and stopping erosion and it can take a incredible amount of abuse from stock and vehicles. Its just too bad that the fungus has so many drawbacks. Almost every hill in Tennessee that is not in timber is covered in KY 31.

Regards, Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
877 Posts
Are the rotary rakes capable of raking tall crops. I use to plant haygrazer which should be cut around 4 feet tall but weather can let is go where it heads out and that would be 6 feet plus and headed out. My JD 700 has a problem with it because it builds up on the last strippers. I had a wheel rake years ago and it was no match for it. I sure like the Pequea 24TS because we need to combine more that 2 rows. With that you can do 4 into one.
 

·
Hay Master (Supposedly)
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
My JD 700 has a problem with it because it builds up on the last strippers
If these are the last factory stripper on each side, remove them. The R23 (JD700) will work better in all conditions without them.
----------------------

Question for the rotary rake users: assuming a rotary rake can cover about 22-24 feet width, how many acres per hour would it do?
 

·
MrBaleMan
Joined
·
325 Posts
I'm not sure theres an accurate measurement on acres per hour. To me it kinda depends on the tonage that you are raking. Because you dont want to out run the speed of the rake. U can go as fast as you want but your going to take a hit on the quality of the windrow and the amount of hay left on the ground. But just to take a rough guess.....I think the one I ran this fall I could cover 7-8 acres and hour????
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,033 Posts
I'm not sure theres an accurate measurement on acres per hour. To me it kinda depends on the tonage that you are raking. Because you dont want to out run the speed of the rake. U can go as fast as you want but your going to take a hit on the quality of the windrow and the amount of hay left on the ground. But just to take a rough guess.....I think the one I ran this fall I could cover 7-8 acres and hour????
Single or double rotor? I keep looking at them, but I've raked a 34 acre field with my 25 foot v wheel rake in 1 hour 37 minutes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: askinner

·
Registered
Joined
·
877 Posts
Single or double rotor? I keep looking at them, but I've raked a 34 acre field with my 25 foot v wheel rake in 1 hour 37 minutes.
My speed is determined by the field conditions. Bouncing in the seat is not my favorite pastime. I had a hired hand that raked a maze field in an hour and one half. I knew the field took 3.5 hours. I fired him and had to re-rake it. Everytime I have a front end problem with that tractor I think of him ... and not Fondly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Is there any windrow bunching with rotaries? My understanding is that the windrow should be fluffier and consistent with a rotary, but I was talking to a custom operator who complained that following a rotary with a chopper was miserable because the rows were "clumpy" compared to a v-rake. Also, he thought that the rotary rakes did not flip the material as well as a v-rake either, leading to further drying problems.

We are in a damp coastal climate and have migrated towards a second tedding just before raking in the hopes that we moved the material enough to cut out the extra pass we are taking with the v-rake in order to pick up that middle bit. It still means an extra pass over the field and potential leaf loss from the tedder at a late stage in curing. The side delivery aspect of the rotary really appeals to me because it gives the option of putting two full swaths together without re-handling a formed row. If raking wasn't such a bottleneck we may be able to bale more with the dew coming off in the morning, opposed to tying up tractors on the rake and the tedder until well after the opportunity passed. Our evening/nighttime baling windows are short and unpredictable too, making making efficient raking even more important.

Anyone out there ever try running a v-rake in tandem with a rolabar or merger in order to flip the middle bit and maybe get the row closer together? Still seems messier than a rotary.

Looked up the nearest Pequea dealer, they are about 200 miles away from us; always good to learn something new!
 

·
Senior Member
JD 945, JD336, JD348, NH BR7060, NH1033, Ford 5000, IH 784 & 666, JD 2520, 4020 & JD4230
Joined
·
1,046 Posts
Anyone out there ever try running a v-rake in tandem with a rolabar or merger in order to flip the middle bit and maybe get the row closer together? Still seems messier than a rotary.
I have never seen it, but have been told that some farmers would take an extra set of wheels off of an old wheel rake and mount them either at the front of the wheel rake or on the front of the raking tractor. This extra set of wheels would flip the middle to one side or the other and allow you to "fluff" the center of the windrow. You also might be able to use this to roll a windrow over in order to dry the bottom.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
15,815 Posts
Gearclash; Question for the rotary rake users: assuming a rotary rake can cover about 22-24 feet width, how many acres per hour would it do?

I would think 15 acres or more dependant on conditions.
-------------
mlappin; Single or double rotor? I keep looking at them, but I've raked a 34 acre field with my 25 foot v wheel rake in 1 hour 37 minutes.

Wheels are faster but put alot more ash into the windrow. I could not rake 34 [email protected]' per in Tennessee with any kind of rake in a hour and half.
--------------

cb18987; Also, he thought that the rotary rakes did not flip the material as well as a v-rake either, leading to further drying problems.

Not true....rotary windrows dry better than wheel rake windrows. I own and use both.
---------------

Regards, Mike
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,033 Posts
My fields are smooth, if they get rough they goto corn.

My HT 154 has center kicker wheels that moves the center out to the wings, then the wings rake it back in.

Get the spring preload set right on my rake and you don't get much dirt.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
15,815 Posts
I use a rotary rake for first cuttings in Orchard Grass and Timothy and all cuttings in alfalfa. The rotary is great for alfalfa because it carries it in a gentle sweep. I use a wheel rake for 2nd cutting of all grasses so that I can cover more ground....if I had a tandem rotary I would use it instead. I use a wheel rake for first cutting fescue due to fescues quicker drying abilities and finer stems and blades so it is not as likely to plug up in a wheel rake like heavier grasses. There are times when a rotary is better than a wheel and vice versa. If I could only afford one rake which would I buy?? If the majority of my hay was round baled I would buy a wheel rake unless I could afford a tandem rotary. If the majority of hay I baled was small squared I would buy the rotary every time. With a later model MF/Hesston or NH square baler, you can eat a heck of alot of hay windrowed with a rotary. The only advantage that a wheel rake has over a rotary is speed. These are just my observations and opinions....others may disagree. Like I have said before.....it is good to have both kinds of rakes and then you have the best of both worlds. In the square bale business, TEDDING and RAKING are more important than the actual baling itself.

Regards, Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
877 Posts
I use a rotary rake for first cuttings in Orchard Grass and Timothy and all cuttings in alfalfa. The rotary is great for alfalfa because it carries it in a gentle sweep. I use a wheel rake for 2nd cutting of all grasses so that I can cover more ground....if I had a tandem rotary I would use it instead. I use a wheel rake for first cutting fescue due to fescues quicker drying abilities and finer stems and blades so it is not as likely to plug up in a wheel rake like heavier grasses. There are times when a rotary is better than a wheel and vice versa. If I could only afford one rake which would I buy?? If the majority of my hay was round baled I would buy a wheel rake unless I could afford a tandem rotary. If the majority of hay I baled was small squared I would buy the rotary every time. With a later model MF/Hesston or NH square baler, you can eat a heck of alot of hay windrowed with a rotary. The only advantage that a wheel rake has over a rotary is speed. These are just my observations and opinions....others may disagree. Like I have said before.....it is good to have both kinds of rakes and then you have the best of both worlds. In the square bale business, TEDDING and RAKING are more important than the actual baling itself.

Regards, Mike
Yes indeed on the tedding and raking ... especially if you have an accumulator on the back of the baler.
 
1 - 20 of 61 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top