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Clean the hay out of the chamber. Trip the knotter and push the needles into the chamber. The needle safety latch is now in the chamber. Turn the flywheel the opposite way the flywheel turns in operation until the crank arm passes back over the safety latch. Now when the pto is turned the correct way the crank arm will come up against the safety latch and lock the machine.

I would suggest you take the clutch apart and free the plates since just loosening the clutch will not free one side of the clutch discs..
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
My story isn't over so now I'm perplexed.

I did take apart the clutch but the discs were not seized up and did slip when I left the springs loose while turning PTO.

Tonight I started the baler up very slowly to test everything and immediately broke a shearbolt on the flywheel. The safety latch was out, so I checked timing. The timing is way off, my dots don't line up and are several inches off, and the needles enter the bale chamber several inches after the tips of the plunger extensions. So it appears the baler has jumped timing.

How I don't know. Could it have jumped several links on the chain perhaps when the PTO yoke had busted? The flywheel shearbolt did not break then though. It only broke when I fired it up just now. Last winter I had removed a link from this chain to get it to be tight enough. I'm wondering if I should now just replace the entire chain, get it back in time and see how things go.

I just don't like fixing things without an explanation for why it broke.

To time I get the flywheel crank straight up between the two notches, and then pull the needles to home position by pulling the rod back that goes from brake to yoke on the needles. I had my dots completely lined up on the knotter clutch and the needle entry into the bale chamber was within manual specs from the forward most face of the plunger as well. Not no more though.
 

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I'm just shooting in the dark here but could it of jumped timing and when it went to tie it hit those safety stops but shear bolt didn't break so the next best thing was the yoke? Might solve the whole mystery here?
And with something as Important as the timing chain I'd just replace it. Just a curious note... Can you take out links on a timing chain? I'd think that would mess with the rotation? Maybe it was in time when you did it but slowly very slowly got out of time though the year? Once again idk but just spit balling. Hope something I said helps the train of thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
I'm just shooting in the dark here but could it of jumped timing and when it went to tie it hit those safety stops but shear bolt didn't break so the next best thing was the yoke? Might solve the whole mystery here?
I don’t see how a shear bolt could survive a collision with that safety latch. And there’s still the slip clutch between that and the yoke as well.

This baler is really starting to piss me off this year though. Ran flawlessly the last two years.
 

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I'm just shooting in the dark here but could it of jumped timing and when it went to tie it hit those safety stops but shear bolt didn't break so the next best thing was the yoke? Can you take out links on a timing chain? I'd think that would mess with the rotation? Maybe it was in time when you did it but slowly very slowly got out of time though the year?.
My experience with sq balers is if chains remain snug with no excessive slack the baler can't get out of time due to chain jumping sprocket teeth.
Number of links remains constant between drive & driven sprockets regardless of number of links in a chain.
I'm surprised slip clutch wasn't seized on Josh's baler.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Ditto what Jim said.

Shear bolt will always shear before slip clutch can slip when a sudden impact occurs.
I replaced the chain and got knotters back in time. It seems to be doing ok now just running it in the driveway. I cycled the knotters a few times at very low speed to watch them. Side by side the old chain was pretty stretched out compared to the new chain. For $20 I don’t know why I didn’t do it last winter instead of just remove a link.

In reassembling the slip clutch, manual states a spring length of 2 9/16” for my serial number baler. That seems longer than what it had and I didn’t measure before disassembling. I marked the clutch disc and plates and it slips when I fire up at low speed. Should this happen or do I need to keep tightening quarter turn until it doesn’t?
 

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If the clutch slips to easily, just tighten the nuts down more. The measurement is just a starting point since in reality spring lengths are just a estimate for the setting. If you want to get an accurate setting then a bar and spring scales can be used to set the torque.
 

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I marked the clutch disc and plates and it slips when I fire up at low speed. Should this happen or do I need to keep tightening quarter turn until it doesn’t?
My balers manual gives instructions for slip clutch adjustment to be loose enough to turn the PTO shaft with a certain length wrench and certain amount of weight on end of wrench. When adjusted to those specs the clutch does chatter slightly when engaging the PTO. That makes sense to me because the flywheel is big and heavy to get started. If the clutch slips a little on startup it also keeps the discs moving free.
 

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I just got done with my 273. I replaced the chains last night so the timing is perfect. 151 links plus 2 offsets and one connecting link for the knotter, 117 links with an offset and connecting link and 65 for the reel with a connecting link. Other than the reel chain jumping the sprocket due to me not realizing I missed a spacer under the pulley, everything worked like a charm, until I broke a shear bolt. Then broke another. I backed everything up with the flywheel, cleared out some grass from inside, put in another shear bolt and this time it ran. Once all the grass that was in it cleared out, I shut it down to find out what caused it to break twice and I can clearly see marks in one of the teeth from the ram knife. I forgot to replace the springs that were missing for the fingers. I guess one finger didn't clear in time and got et by the ram. Once I put the new springs on, I had, them, just forgot to install them, I was able to bale the rest. Broke at 14 bales.
 

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There really is no way for the feeder tine to be caught in the knives unless the tine comes out. I noticed on your other post about shear bolts. Unless you are using the correct NH shear bolt a regular bolt will not last.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
I just got done with my 273. I replaced the chains last night so the timing is perfect. 151 links plus 2 offsets and one connecting link for the knotter, 117 links with an offset and connecting link and 65 for the reel with a connecting link. Other than the reel chain jumping the sprocket due to me not realizing I missed a spacer under the pulley, everything worked like a charm, until I broke a shear bolt. Then broke another. I backed everything up with the flywheel, cleared out some grass from inside, put in another shear bolt and this time it ran. Once all the grass that was in it cleared out, I shut it down to find out what caused it to break twice and I can clearly see marks in one of the teeth from the ram knife. I forgot to replace the springs that were missing for the fingers. I guess one finger didn't clear in time and got et by the ram. Once I put the new springs on, I had, them, just forgot to install them, I was able to bale the rest. Broke at 14 bales.
The number of links shouldn’t matter as long as the chain is long enough to be connected and then tightened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
There really is no way for the feeder tine to be caught in the knives unless the tine comes out. I noticed on your other post about shear bolts. Unless you are using the correct NH shear bolt a regular bolt will not last.
I only use NH shear bolts. I haven’t figured out why the baler could have jumped time but the old chain next to the new one showed the old chain was pretty stretched. I baled up 100 bales today as a test for a bigger day tomorrow and had no issues.

I sure do appreciate all your wisdom, help, and advice. I retain everything you say and it’s been a tremendous help for me.
 
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There really is no way for the feeder tine to be caught in the knives unless the tine comes out. I noticed on your other post about shear bolts. Unless you are using the correct NH shear bolt a regular bolt will not last.
Finger, not tine. There are 6 fingers and one of the middle fingers got caught because there were no springs to pull it back down. Only thing I can see how it happened is if the finger got hung up on the first finger and got hit as that finger cleared while the ram was moving past.

I was struggling trying to get the spring on the bolt by squeezing my hand through the top, then realized, DOH, theres a cover on the side. Once I removed the cover and the nut on the bearing to pop the arm off, the feeder just slides out making it so much easier.

As far as the links go, I just went by what the manual said.
 

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What you call fingers are the tines, same thing just different terminology. There is no way for the plunger to hit a tine while the tine is in place. The connection between the plunger and feeder is direct mechanical assembly. As long as this assembly is in tack the plunger and feeder are locked in position. Believe me, if the plunger ever hit a tine while in place there would be more damage. Think of this way. if the middle tine got hit, why did not the first set of tines get hit since those tines would still be in the chamber also.

Flip the cover and check for yourself. Have someone turn the flywheel and you try and replicate what you think happened.
 

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All I can tell you is what I see, and I can clearly see that it got hit by what appear to be the knives from the plunger. If you can tell me how that finger got knife marks on it, I'm all ears and not being sarcastic either.

Wood Natural material Linens Electric blue Metal

I did find that tooth stuck on the outside of that first tooth last year when I discovered the springs were missing, but didn't have the marks on it that are there now. The shiny spot is where the two were rubbing together. I have not touched them other than to remove the bolt to install the new spring, they are in the exact spot they were in when I got it.
 

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It definitely appears to be hit by the kniife. Is there a corresponding notch on the other side of the tine where the other knife would have also hit the tine.

But, there is still no way for the knife to contact a feeder tine, if the tine is still in place, and I also may not be seeing what you are saying, but there is no way for the center tine to be stuck on the outside of the first set of tines, possibly the inside. Can you imagine how much damage would have occurred if the plunger knife hit a tine while the tine was still in the holder.

The center tine holder should also keep the center tiines from moving that far upwards to get stuck on the first set.

Can you take a few photos of the feeder carriage from the top and front?
 

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When it cools off, it is setting in the sun and its freaking HOT out there right now. There are matching cuts on the back side, offset just like one would see from the plunger knives. Without springs to pull it back, it was easy to kick that tooth up 90* and make it stick to the outside of the other tooth. There is just enough play that the tooth can be moved to the outside of the front teeth, front being the set facing the plunger. That notch is how far away from the front tooth it sticks out when stuck to the outside of the front tooth. This is the tooth at the rear of the chamber, closest side to the fixed knife. When I get a chance i will see if I can get up to see the knives and check for damage too. I just got an endoscope for fathers day, I got a first use case for it right here.

EDIT:
I did go out and sitting on the ground, in the shade of the machine I was able to rotate the flywheel and observe the movements. Those marks must have been in that tooth when I got the machine, There IS no freaking way that tooth could get caught in the knives unless the tooth was ripped out of the holder. The carriage is no where near the plunger when it starts coming forward. It can get stuck against the first set without the springs, that I know as fact because that is how I found out the springs were missing. Thats where the shiny spot came from, but the knife marks, that must have happened in the past with it coming out the holder. thats good, that means the shear bolt broke because it was the incorrect one for the amount of grass being fed into it. I am going to Messicks page now to find the correct bolts, check their price with shipping and check with the NH dealer I bought the tedder from to see if they are less expensive and in stock. For Case/IH parts, they are the same as my Kubota Dealer, so I get the parts locally, but the NH parts I got through them, I just found a local one, if a 43 minute drive is considered local.
 

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Your theory should be easy enough to check. Stick the tine in the position you said the tine was in and turn the flywheel and see if the plunger knife hits the tine.

Something does not seem right with your feeder carriage. The springs are not meant to keep the tines from going to far, they just are not strong enough. The center tine support has limiting stops to keep the tines from going to far. The center tines are not spread as wide as the either of the other two sets. The center tines even if the tine was stuck up and the plunger hit the tine, the tine still would be a couple of inches from the chamber knife. For the plunger to push the tine into the chamber knife there would have been significant bending of the tine support. And then, why did the plunger miss the front tine since the plunger should have hit that front tine first since that tine was even farther into the chamber when the plunger was on it.
 
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