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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I thought someone else used it right before it broke. Or you supervised their use?
You are correct and I did not supervise, but he never said anything about doing that and he's got much more experience than me farming, so I was only giving him the benefit of the doubt.
 

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Here’s a question for y’all—could turning too sharp do this?

reason I ask is the other farmer who used it after me made a really sharp turn with about 4 bales left. It was so sharp he bent the tongue of my wagon and is now fixing it.

The next person to use baler was me, and 15 bales into it it breaks. So that makes me really suspicious that he might have cracked it, especially since the turn happened right at the end of his session and the break happened right at the beginning of mine.
Yes it could. I did exact same thing last year but I only had 15 bales left to bale!
 

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And here’s a picture.
View attachment 91920
I see a mark on the left hand side that should not be there. It looks like an impact mark, which if it is, could have put just enough pressure to take advantage of the years and years of fatigue stresses and snapped the yoke.

On my IH 35, the intershaft yoke connected to the left drive wheel snapped. Pretty much like this but is round instead of square. It split right through where the bolt hole is that secured it to the axle shaft. It just gave up the ghost during use.
 

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Here’s a question for y’all—could turning too sharp do this?

reason I ask is the other farmer who used it after me made a really sharp turn with about 4 bales left. It was so sharp he bent the tongue of my wagon and is now fixing it.

The next person to use baler was me, and 15 bales into it it breaks. So that makes me really suspicious that he might have cracked it, especially since the turn happened right at the end of his session and the break happened right at the beginning of mine.
In a word--Yepp!

Ralph
 

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In a word--Yepp!

Ralph
Ralph
Please elaborate how turning too sharp puts any extra stress on u-joint yoke that located next to slip clutch on small sq baler with drive shaft that has a carrier brg such a a NH 575 or JD 348 if baler tongue is set correctly in field position?? I think turning exerts very little to no affect on yoke @ slip clutch. I agree turning sharp puts more stress on both u-joints/yokes on telescoping driveshaft that fits on tractor pto shaft more especially without equal-angle hitch & correct tractor drawbar setting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Ralph
Please elaborate how turning too sharp puts any extra stress on u-joint yoke that located next to slip clutch on small sq baler with drive shaft that has a carrier brg such a a NH 575 or JD 348 if baler tongue is set correctly in field position?? I think turning exerts very little to no affect on yoke @ slip clutch. I agree turning sharp puts more stress on both u-joints/yokes on telescoping driveshaft that fits on tractor pto shaft more especially without equal-angle hitch & correct tractor drawbar setting.
I agree, I questioned it but looking at how the PTO is set up on mine, I don't see how it's possible. Most of the driveline angle seems like it will be coming from the u joint at the tractor PTO connection and the u joint at the carrier bearing (the middle u joint).

Since I've never done anything with my slip clutch, I'm guessing it's probably seized up and the continual shock to that yoke probably weakened it over many years and many thousands of bales. I do throttle the tractor down to low RPM, then engage the PTO very slowly, and then slowly throttle up EVERY time I start the baler, but there's still the sustained shock during the course of baling.

The driveline shop that welded on a new yoke and replaced u joint said there's no way a bad u joint would cause a yoke failure like that.
 

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Have you ever put grease on the power pivot jaws. The power pivot is where the mid bearing is located. When making sharp turns the pto shaft from the tractor to the mid bearing bottoms out and pushes the power pivot to the side to help eliminate knocking of the u-joints. If you look at the mid bearing mounting you will see the spring under the bearing mount with the jaws above. Not saying this is the cause of the rear pto, but it can play a role with the front drive line.

Yokes have failed like that on all type of drive lines. Even heavier yokes than your baler has have failed like that. Running the pto below recommended pto speed when the machine is under load is a fast way to fail a pto. The lower the speed the higher the torque which is transferred through the drive line. That is why you find lighter pto shafts on 1000 rpm machines. Twice the speed and half the torque.
 

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I've never read or heard where u-joint on JD small sq balers located just in front of slip clutch required timing with front telescoping shafts. IIRC when baler tongue is in field position that portion of driveshaft operates straight with baler tongue. Was your balers slip clutch operating as designed slipping minutely with every plungerhead stroke when hay was being feed into bale chamber??
This all happened some 30 years ago when I was grade school age, so I may have missed some things, and lost some details possibly over time. But I don’t recall ever hearing that the slip clutch was thought to be at fault. All I recall is that the yoke alignment was changed, and that that particular U joint never gave trouble again. May have even been purely coincidental that the timing was changed and there was no subsequent failure.
I do think that in field position there is a small amount of angle on that U joint. Can’t swear to it but I spent plenty of time on a tractor seat looking back at that baler.
 

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I think you're correct u-joint at slip clutch on JD small sq baler beginning with 336 to present balers has a ""very slight angle"" but nothing similar to angle of telescoping drive shaft u-joints when performing turns. With carrier brg between rear telescoping shaft u-joint & u-joint in front of SC I fail to see how u-joint timing(/phasing) is necessary.

I do know from experience a seized slip clutch on JD sq balers will cause premature failure of flywheel shear bolt.
 

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Ralph
Please elaborate how turning too sharp puts any extra stress on u-joint yoke that located next to slip clutch on small sq baler with drive shaft that has a carrier brg such a a NH 575 or JD 348 if baler tongue is set correctly in field position?? I think turning exerts very little to no affect on yoke @ slip clutch. I agree turning sharp puts more stress on both u-joints/yokes on telescoping driveshaft that fits on tractor pto shaft more especially without equal-angle hitch & correct tractor drawbar setting.
I apologize for not explaining. I'm not familiar with the JD balers, however, I busted the yoke on a Vicon mower turning it too sharp. My new NH DB210R, which is a lot like my old H7230, now comes with "bumpers" to prevent you from turning too tight in either direction. And it comes with a CV PTO.

Upon reflection, I can see several ways that a yoke could be stressed to the point of breaking. Example, somebody is backing the baler into the shed, making a sharp turn, and accidentally hits the PTO engage.

Ralph
 

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I apologize for not explaining. I'm not familiar with the JD balers, however, I busted the yoke on a Vicon mower turning it too sharp. My new NH DB210R, which is a lot like my old H7230, now comes with "bumpers" to prevent you from turning too tight in either direction. And it comes with a CV PTO.

Upon reflection, I can see several ways that a yoke could be stressed to the point of breaking. Example, somebody is backing the baler into the shed, making a sharp turn, and accidentally hits the PTO engage.

Ralph
Ralph
No apology is necessary. Do you realize this thread is in reference to a similar location u-joint encircled in purple that's very similar u-joint on both NH & JD small sq balers. As long as tongue is in "field position" turning corners puts little to no more stress on this u-joint granted NH baler pto u-joint operates at a slightly greater angle than similar u-joint on JD baler
 

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At least you didn't snap the driveshaft in half like I did by leaving the jackstand in place, and forgetting to pull the drawbar out all the way so that the tire can hit the jack on a left turn and press right against the weld on the sleeve. I couldn't figure out why I had no problems the first time I used it with the stand still on, and wasn't until I went to measure for the tedder that I discovered I forgot to pull the drawbar ll the way out. I was able to weld it back together, but bugged me all while I was cutting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
This all happened some 30 years ago when I was grade school age, so I may have missed some things, and lost some details possibly over time. But I don’t recall ever hearing that the slip clutch was thought to be at fault. All I recall is that the yoke alignment was changed, and that that particular U joint never gave trouble again. May have even been purely coincidental that the timing was changed and there was no subsequent failure.
I do think that in field position there is a small amount of angle on that U joint. Can’t swear to it but I spent plenty of time on a tractor seat looking back at that baler.
It is at a slight angle. This video is one of the last fields I baled before it broke. Skip to 3:35 and you can see the angle from the operator's station.

 

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Who's Video was that? I LOL at the 2501 being used. I bet for a while afterwards there was some inadvertent head rocking from the back and forth of the baler.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Who's Video was that? I LOL at the 2501 being used. I bet for a while afterwards there was some inadvertent head rocking from the back and forth of the baler.
That’s my video from my channel. I had to borrow a tractor when mine got a fuel plug and that’s what the neighbor backed out of the shed. Said he bales with it all the time.
 

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Who's Video was that? I LOL at the 2501 being used. I bet for a while afterwards there was some inadvertent head rocking from the back and forth of the baler.
That’s my video from my channel. I had to borrow a tractor when mine got a fuel plug and that’s what the neighbor backed out of the shed. Said he bales with it all the time.
I use my 2025R to run my square baler, about 10 acres of flat ground 2-3x per year. I don’t pull a wagon behind it. Last week I baled >300 bales in 2 hours and used <1 gallon/hour so it’s not working it very hard.
Wheel Tire Sky Plant Vehicle
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
I’m going to burnish my slip clutch on the baler. As it hasn’t been done in a long time I’m sure it’s seized up. I have the manual which says lock the flywheel. I have loosened the spring bolts up 4 turns each but am having a hard time locking the flywheel, and even then not sure I will be able to turn the slip clutch by hand if it’s real seized up.

Can I mark it with a paint marker and then hook it up to the tractor in field position to engage the PTO very slowly at low speed for A brief moment to turn the clutch discs?
 

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I’m going to burnish my slip clutch on the baler. As it hasn’t been done in a long time I’m sure it’s seized up. I have the manual which says lock the flywheel. I have loosened the spring bolts up 4 turns each but am having a hard time locking the flywheel, and even then not sure I will be able to turn the slip clutch by hand if it’s real seized up.

Can I mark it with a paint marker and then hook it up to the tractor in field position to engage the PTO very slowly at low speed for A brief moment to turn the clutch discs?
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Can you put something through that hoe that will keep the flywheel from turning? Then use a big pipe wrench or adjustable wrench on the PTO shaft to turn it by hand.
 

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When I check slip clutches I just loosen the tension on clutch, then go mow or bale & monitor clutch. After slip clutch slips tighten bolts back to specs. Easy/peasy
 
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