[MtnHerd]

I have heard that the trucks using the def fluid get a lot better milage than the regular egr in the previous generation of diesels. I have a friend that that went from 6.4 powerstroke to 6.7 and is much happier with his fuel mileage. But it also cost him a higher premium. I know he was upset that his brother had a v10 getting the same mileage as his 6.4. Anyone with any knowledge on if def is helping?

 

[somedevildawg]

I have heard that the trucks using the def fluid get a lot better milage than the regular egr in the previous generation of diesels. I have a friend that that went from 6.4 powerstroke to 6.7 and is much happier with his fuel mileage. But it also cost him a higher premium. I know he was upset that his brother had a v10 getting the same mileage as his 6.4. Anyone with any knowledge on if def is helping?

The DEF doesn't help with mileage but the newer generation engines are the ones that use DEF and they are much more fuel efficient......the 6.4 was a guzzler compared to the 6.7. Of course one (6.4) is made by International and the 6.7 made by FoMoCo. All of the newer engines are getting better mileage, but it comes at a price in both longevity and price......

 

[BWfarms]

Hands down diesel. Why is there even an argument? I'm guessing it's because some are not true haulers. Before you get your panties in a bunch. How is a diesel not suitable for eastern guys? We have a lot of hills, curves, and more stop and go. I'll prefer my 6.7 Cummins any day over any gasser. Can anybody get by with gas? Sure.

I want power when I go up hills, around curves, and from a dead stop. Most importantly a diesel will help control your loads better. You need the exhaust braking in hilly terrain. Not all ag trailers/wagons have electric brakes. Pair an electric brake equipped trailer and diesel exhaust braking (and the trucks), you will better control your load.

The initial price is there but beating 11-15 mpg hauling (load dependent) and 21-22 highway in a diesel. (I can get 17 on long interstate hauls) You can kiss my grits and write about it. The way I pencil it, my initial investment and yearly maintenance costs me .18 cents a mile.

 

[JD3430]

I didn't even think about the exhaust brakes
Another reason I should have listed!

 

[slowzuki]

Helps indirectly as you don't need "super" egr cooling the peak temps/pressures. NOx is formed by the exact same high temp that a diesel needs for efficiency. DEF after treat lets you make the NOx then treat it.

The DEF doesn't help with mileage but the newer generation engines are the ones that use DEF and they are much more fuel efficient......the 6.4 was a guzzler compared to the 6.7. Of course one (6.4) is made by International and the 6.7 made by FoMoCo. All of the newer engines are getting better mileage, but it comes at a price in both longevity and price......

 

[slowzuki]

Of course we are not true haulers, if I was I'd be trucking instead!

Not mentioned are a few other benefits of gas:

Gas truck starts easily all winter, no wait to start, no wait to shut down. No gelling, no overloading of the front axle by putting a plow on.

Don't feel bad starting and stopping engine while fencing, feeding, using truck as scafolding, etc.

Don't instantly fill shop with fumes when you back in to load stuff on the back. This is another mainly winter issue when you're trying to keep the heat inside and don't want to leave the doors open.

Less ruts in the fields due to the almost 1000 lbs less on the front axle.

some are not true haulers.

 

[JD3430]

Of course we are not true haulers, if I was I'd be trucking instead!

Not mentioned are a few other benefits of gas:
Gas truck starts easily all winter, no wait to start, no wait to shut down. No gelling, no overloading of the front axle by putting a plow on.
Don't feel bad starting and stopping engine while fencing, feeding, using truck as scafolding, etc.
Don't instantly fill shop with fumes when you back in to load stuff on the back. This is another mainly winter issue when you're trying to keep the heat inside and don't want to leave the doors open.
Less ruts in the fields due to the almost 1000 lbs less on the front axle.

The 6.4L diesel engine in my F-550 weighs 1,130lbs.
A Ford V-10 weighs 650lbs.
That's a 480lb difference, not 1,000lbs.
I dont know where you come up with this stuff.

Putting a plow on a 350-550 means you're adding about another 1,000lbs. Front axle ratings on 350-550 are 6,000-7,000lbs. Plow is no trouble at all. They're equipped with "plow packages" which means the truck is built and warranted from Ford for plowing.
Fumes in garage? New 6.7L is certified clean idle. Cant get much cleaner than that!
Gelling? Add power service- no gelling.

I don't like to stop/start-wears out engine faster. You can leave a diesel running and it'll consume much less fuel that a gas engine at idle. Now I wouldn't idle for more than 5 minutes because its not good for the engine.

 

[gearhartfarms82]

Def by far makes things better. Tier 3 emisons trucks suck on mpg hands down. The def made tier 4 trucks basicaly back to the same mpg as tier 2 trucks. Def is also dirt cheap. Or you can delete it if u want. With these new diesels there is no advantage to gas in the winter. Mine will start at -20 all day long with out being pluged in. We have a gas truck inour fleet and the only advantage it has is stoping at the gas station more each day (the guys like that). The air coming out of tier 4 trucks is cleaner than the air u breath in new york city. Also on gelling, if u buy good fuel to start with you dont have that problem. No walmart/kroger fuel. I pay an extra 9k giver take and dont think twice for my duramaxes. I can recoupe that in just about a yrs time. Expecaly when the gas and deisel were in the 4$ range. Little longer at the 2$ range but still its a no brainer if u are going to truly use ur truck. If ur getting groceries the gas might be a better bet if thats what u want.

 

[JD3430]

If you do a delete on a DPF diesel truck, they get excellent fuel mileage and increased longevity.

 

[SVFHAY]

You guys are amusing. Lets agree diesel is nicer. The original premise is comparing new or very late model. Lets say you don't stroke a check for 50k and finance it. What is that additional cost REALLY costing you since 7-10k extra is going to make your payment book a little thicker. Would you finance a delete?

Drive whatever you want. I have to compromise sometimes.

 

[slowzuki]

Take for example a 2004 f350 - 4400 lb front axle rating on most 4x4 models. Maxed out model was 5200 lb. the diesel model had little reserve capacity.

The 2010s had a range from 4200 to 6000 lb but most seem to come 5200 lb. I think you needed the super 60 tow boss or something package to get the higher rating and it's pretty rare.

 

[gearhartfarms82]

I wish I had the money so I didn't have to finance my trucks make life a nicer. It is all going to come down to how much you use your truck I have a 6.0 gas or that will pull just as good as the 6.6 Duramax but it takes a lot longer the squirrels are wound tight and at the end of the day it drinks a lot more fuel. On average there is 5mpg difference between gas and diesel on our trucks loaded or empty across the board. On 50000 miles a yr thats at least 3-4k difference in fuel cost a yr just in milage not including idle time. So at the end of the day saving the 8k buying gas truck on 5 yrs loan will actually cost u 7k more just in fuel cost at the end of 5 yrs at what our prices are here for fuel.

Now if ur only running 10000 miles or some other figure that might be a different story. But for our operation buying cheaper gas trucks cost me more money at the end of the day.

You figure minus the motors and torque converters in the autos if ur buying 1 tons or bigger all the other drive train components are the same with in each manufacturer. Your gas motors are a few hundred pounds lighter, will pull just as much, and run just as well. It comes down to how fast u want to do it and how much u truly use ur truck for pulling.

Not trying to sound like a smart a$$ but ive tried to pencil it many ways. I used to run gas trucks and once i swallowed the jump and the price tag my bottom line increased a couple pennies at the end of the day.

 

[slowzuki]

What are you doing with your farm pickup to put that many km a year on? That is exceptionally high mileage on a farm truck. Does your state let you haul out of state with farm plates?

On 50000 miles a yr

 

[gearhartfarms82]

Farms spread out is one killer (35 miles from one end to other), but we deliver all of our product and then more on top of that. All of our hay is kept at two places so we haul from field to barn more than most. We haul all of our own supplies, gravel, cattle, ect. Before we did hay we was still running around 30,000 miles. Were not as bad as out west but nothing close it seems like and getting ground right next door is impossible.

U can use farm tags to deliver out of state with, us dot numer, ifta tags, and urc. Seems to be that way with most states but trying to find someone who knows anything about farm tags and going out of state is a nightmare.

 

[JD3430]

Farms spread out is one killer (35 miles from one end to other), but we deliver all of our product and then more on top of that. All of our hay is kept at two places so we haul from field to barn more than most. We haul all of our own supplies, gravel, cattle, ect. Before we did hay we was still running around 30,000 miles. Were not as bad as out west but nothing close it seems like and getting ground right next door is impossible.

U can use farm tags to deliver out of state with, us dot numer, ifta tags, and urc. Seems to be that way with most states but trying to find someone who knows anything about farm tags and going out of state is a nightmare.

I got apportioned tags and I'm done with worrying about crossing state lines

 

[BWfarms]

Of course we are not true haulers, if I was I'd be trucking instead!

Not mentioned are a few other benefits of gas:
Gas truck starts easily all winter, no wait to start, no wait to shut down. No gelling, no overloading of the front axle by putting a plow on.
Don't feel bad starting and stopping engine while fencing, feeding, using truck as scafolding, etc.
Don't instantly fill shop with fumes when you back in to load stuff on the back. This is another mainly winter issue when you're trying to keep the heat inside and don't want to leave the doors open.
Less ruts in the fields due to the almost 1000 lbs less on the front axle.

Let's get back to the OP, it's a heavier class designed for hauling, you want every ounce of power you can get. If you're using the hauling truck as a chore truck you need to invest in a beater. I use my diesel for hauling and the occasional "light" job around the farm. I use my gasser for the short jumps, quick fixes, etc. Mostly I use a 4 wheeler for fencing.

This kind of brings back the posting, "How many trucks do you need?"
The dedicated hauler, dedicated chore truck, and the misc broken trucks lol

 

[JD3430]

I think we're overlooking something very significant: many of us buy used trucks. Many of those used trucks we buy could have 50, 100 + thousand miles on them. Diesel engine powered used trucks given similar care to a gas truck would last longer.

 

[gearhartfarms82]

Jd3430. We cant buy those tags. We have to buy commercial tags at a nice cheap price.

 

[gearhartfarms82]

And thats also throws us into commercial insurance

 

[gearhartfarms82]

I think many are right. So many variables for allot of people when it comes to trucks. For some of us its a little easier to come up with a solution. All comes down to what u want and like.