[Ray450]

The baler scares me more, I can look at the disc and know how they operate. I see a lot of moving parts on the baler that I don't know what they do. The Krone baler just ended a couple grand higher than I was going to go @ $14,600. Probably a great deal for someone familiar with them. Just seemed too risky in my area, for me, no real dealers that sell/service them regularly that I know of around here. I searched some random parts for a Deere baler and got hundreds of returns, got two for the Krone. IF I was buying from an individual, who could have shown me how to hook it up, run it, and that it would make at least one good, tight, wrapped bale, I'd have dropped the cash right then. I had them run it, but I didn't have them get the monitor from the shop and hook it up, I wished I had, but I think I'd be better off waiting and getting a Vermeer or Deere, even if it cost a little more and isn't as clean. I have plenty of people around me that can help out if needed on them. I hope with spring not far off, I'll start seeing more listings.

 

[Tx Jim]

He was just waiting on the part service would have been even longer. Was something in the pickup broke late in the day after the dealer had closed, then it had to come from the warehouse pushing it an extra day, then it's a 6 hour round trip to the dealer to get the part.

May I ask where you saw the thread referring to this failure? Was the thread on HT or some other forum? I would like to read about that failure.

Thank you.Jim

 

[Tx Jim]

Ray450

If rd baler makes no unusual noises when attached to tractor with pto engaged & monitor can be utilized to cycle net or twine actuator then it should be good to go to bale hay. Monitor attached to 12 volt supply & baler would be a good opportunity to check baler total bale count.

 

[Ray450]

Ray450

If rd baler makes no unusual noises when attached to tractor with pto engaged & monitor can be utilized to cycle net or twine actuator then it should be good to go to bale hay. Monitor attached to 12 volt supply & baler would be a good opportunity to check baler total bale count.

Yea, that's why buying at the auctions scare me, can;t run them of even power up the monitors.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Jim there was no thread it was a neighbor of mine. A weld failed in the pickup breaking and bending a couple things. Parts were a couple days out and what hay of his I couldn't get baled up got washed a few times before it was able to get baled.

Moral of the story is any brand/color machine WILL fail at some point. Generally the newer/lower bale count the machine the less chance of failure you will have, but it still isn't zero %.

 

[Tx Jim]

Thanks for reply & explanation. I totally agree any brand of machine can fail.

 

[dvcochran]

Went n looked at the Krone baler, the cutters and rake listed above and stopped at a dealership n looked at new Kuhn 3 pt cutters and they were trying to sell me a used Vermeer Rebel 5420 for $15k. I wasn't overly impressed with the Rebel, it's a economy model, and compared to most of the commercial models I've looked at, it just didn't seem that impressive. It also already had burn marks where a top bearing had failed, and it had less than 1000 bales. It seems like I see a lot of these balers for sale with very low bale counts, which seems to me to mean people are not happy with them. There are also big gaps between the belts, is that an issue? The Kuhn cutter was already sold, the rake had tons of welds, and the Deere 630 looked pretty worn out as well. The Krone baler seemed in really good shape and well engineered with plenty of grease fittings and a auto oiler. If it goes cheap enough, I might be a buyer. I called two local dealers that claim they can get parts and work on them.

https://www.auctiontime.com/listings/farm-equipment/auctions/online/188833801/krone-fortima-v1800mc

There just aren't many of these in my area. Thoughts?

If I can't find a good used disc cutter, the new Kuhn 9' 3pt cutters were a little cheaper than I thought they would be, so if I can get a baler cheap enough, I might just spend $12k and get a new cutter.

I spent time on the Krone USA site trying to find a weight for any 1800 with no success. However, they have a ton of options including double axles and axle brakes, which tells me they must be pretty heavy machines. Looking at your link and several other photos I saw it looks that way to me. This could be something to consider depending on your terrain, tractor size, operating experience, etc...

The Fortima looks a lot more 'complicated' than my old 250. Not certain but it looks like they may be trying to duplicate how a belt roller makes a bale, using two sets of chains. 13 plus rollers is a Lot of rollers so quite a bit of mechanicals going on there. Even the ad says they are more "fancy" than the average baler and to do your homework.

Could be a machine with a hell of a learning curve.

I strongly believe Krone makes some of the better built equipment out there.

As far as the Vermeer Rebels, you are correct. That is a line I am certain Vermeer never wished they had launched. It was/is in direct competition with the JD economy series, NH utility series and so on. Each manufacturer has issues with the low end balers in the typical "you get what you pay for" scenario.

I have heard of some exceptional stories on the Rebel series and have first hand experience with a friends 5420. He tried to use it in a commercial setting and by 2000 bales it was not worth repairing. To be fair, some of the failures were the owner/operators fault. It is clearly stated that they are for the 100-300 roll/year farmer.

 

[Ray450]

Yes, as far as I could tell, the Krone was a very nice baler, but just too risky for a novice operator in my area. Might have been the best deal ever if I had gotten it and jumped into a windrow and it started spitting out nice tight, wrapped rolls. But very likely it was at auction because it couldn't, and I would have had a difficult time figuring it out, finding help and/or parts. Anyway, it's gone, and chances of another Krone in this area coming up is slim. I search and do research every day for balers and cutters. Just doesn't seem to be a lot around here in my price range right now. Might go to auction next Friday, they have some Deere 469 again, one might be the same warped baler they had last time. The auction scares me because so often someone is just dumping a problem off. There's a few I've sent emails on and might go look at that are 1-2 hours away that are just outside my price range. So far these are what I'm considering mostly, 4x6 net, maybe 4x5, in a sort-of order of preference, but that could easily change depending on condition. Trying to stay around $23k-$30k for baler, cutter and rake.

Deere - 468 or 469, maybe 459E or 467 if low bale count. Very popular in this area, lots of parts and expertise, several close dealers and they should be a little more responsive to me if I get one because I already own about $100k in Deere equipment, and just bought a 6105E from them. Seem to be very durable, not overly complicated. I'd love to get a silage model, but all Deeres with under 16k bales sell well here. Most in my price range have very worn parts and look like they could need a lot of new parts thrown at them. Finding one in really good condition in my price range may be impossible. Trying to stay under 12k bales, or about 15k bales for silage models?

Vermeer- 604M tons of models to decipher, A lot of older commercial series don't seem to even make 4x6 or 4x5 model, or ther's none of them for sale, like XL series? Do not really want a Rebel or Rancher series at all, seems to be a huge quality difference between certain models. Good friend has a 604N, so I have someone who knows about them and can help. Closest dealer to me sells/services them. Is there other models I should consider? Obviously the 604N, but realistically, they would be outside my range for sure. Trying to stay under 11k bales, maybe 14k bales for silage models?

New Holland/Case BR7070, RB460, RB465. Just recently started researching these a little more. I pass a New Holland dealer everytime I go to my land, but they never have used ones. Parts/service should be easy, probably the 2nd most common baler in my area next to Deere. BR7070 model seems appealing especially if I can find a good one with under 10k bales. Some don't seem to come well equipped, with manual pickup rollers, and the cheaper utility models don't impress. Might go look at these in the next week.

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/31748887/2011-new-holland-br7070

They also have a Vermeer 604SM.

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/31961397/2013-vermeer-604sm

I don't consider these as HD (the NH Case 450/460/465 models), but if I could find one in good condition with under 10k bales in my range, they seem like they could work.

Kubota, BV4160 Prem or Silage, implements don't seem to be that popular around here, even though their tractors are. Have not done a lot of research, but not overly impressed with most of their hay equipment made by Vicon, Kverneland or whoever. I did come close to buying a Vicon made 9' cutter at the last auction though. I like them. This one does seem intriguing though. As best I can tell, it might be between some of the cheaper utility balers and the upper commercial lines?

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/183273293/2015-kubota-bv4160-prem?ST=Oklahoma%2cTexas&CTRY=USA bale count/price seem good?

So what am I missing, and what's missing from my list?

 

[JD3430]

Well one comment I would add as a NH baler owner: they are not as heavy duty as a Krone or McHale, I believe it's more than enough baler for what you are doing.
I have run a BR7060 making 1,000-1,500 bales per year.
In all honesty, it has broken 5-6 times, but 4 of them were operator error. Really the only things that broke on the baler that were the fault of the baler were the computer box (could have been struck by lightning) and an actuator arm.
Both repairs together cost me ~$1,800.
I think if you got a BR7xxx Silage Special, it would be more baler than you need, based on what I'm understanding about your operation.
These balers would easily make 2,000 bales per year. Just get a silage special and you'll have a nice, affordable, HD baler with easily available parts & service.

 

[Trillium Farm]

Kubota, BV4160, implements don't seem to be that popular around here, even though their tractors are. Have not done a lot of research, but not overly impressed with most of their hay equipment made bu Vicon, Kverneland or whoever. I did com eclose to buying a Vicon made 9' cutter at the last auction though. I like them. This one does seem intriguing though. As best I can tell, it might be between some of the cheaper utility balers and the upper commercial lines?

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/183273293/2015-kubota-bv4160-prem?ST=Oklahoma%2cTexas&CTRY=USA bale count/price seem good?

So what am I missing, and what's missing from my list?

I wouldn't be afraid of Kubota, Vicon has been in business in haymaking implements as very long time, also Kubota bought out the Gallignani Co. a few year ago, one of the best italian round baler manufacturers and between the two I'm sure they would have produced a good baler.

 

[Tx Jim]

Ray450

I personally dislike the JD rd balers(model 457/458/459) that will only make a 60''(5') tall bale.I think their hyd pressure system leaves a lot to be desired. Plus I make my bales 5.5' tall so to have less bales to haul

 

[IH 1586]

Ray450
I personally dislike the JD rd balers(model 457/458/459) that will only make a 60''(5') tall bale.I think their hyd pressure system leaves a lot to be desired. Plus I make my bales 5.5' tall so to have less bales to haul

Curious what changes in the hydraulic system that makes tighter bales. Just looked at tension valve and they both have a 3500 psi valve in them.

 

[Tx Jim]

I didn't state tighter bales. I don't like the fact that the smaller balers utilize the gate cylinders more for tension than their larger counterparts.

IIRC 469 has 2 gate cylinders & 2 tension cylinders with a pressure gauge with adjustable pressure valve while 459 has 2 hyd cylinders with no gauge & preset non adjustable pressure valve.

 

[Ray450]

The dealer with the Kubota got back with me. The more I research it, the more I think it might be a pretty good deal. Very low bales, pretty new, and while it is listed at a 4x5 baler, it shows to actually make up to a 65" bale. I really plan on probably just doing 4x5, but like the safety of being able to go a little bigger and/or not stressing it making 4x5. Any other thoughts on this baler? It's 4 hours from me, so if I went to look at it, it would only be if I was 90% sure I was getting it. The other dealer is much closer. It appears to have a automatic oil system, I like the wide belts with no big gaps, ike the idea of the Vermeer style bottom roller that takes a lot of weight off the belts, doesn't look overly complicated and doesn't have a mile of chains. Tires look small though, it looks like the pick-up would struggle with a tall windrow to me, (has a wide 79" pickup though). It's about a 6,000# baler made by Kverneland and is supposed to be a dry or silage capable European influenced baler. https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/183273293/2015-kubota-bv4160-prem?ST=Oklahoma%2CTexas&CTRY=USA , I'm kind of assuming it's a mid level, somewhere between the economy/utility balers (rebels, 459E, RB450 ect) and the heavier commercial style Deere and Vermeers?

 

[Trillium Farm]

I think that it probably is your best bet so far and a good baler to get your feet wet, so to speak.

Being the less used it's likely less prone to costly repairs and if you need higher capacity later on you can always trade it.

 

[shamrockkidno2]

before you buy you might want to go to Brinkley Auction in Idabel ,Ok, its not far from you. I bought all my hay equiptment there. They will have everthing from almost new to worn completely out. you can check out some of their stuff on the enternet. I bought a JD 459 silage special that had baled 1100 bales for $23000 ,they cost around $ 37000 new. Great baler. bought a slightly used Krone cutter, Krone Tedder and 12 wheel rake much much cheaper than new . All of the equiptment is in new condition almost. I think you should consider getting a tedder. you can bale a day earlier if you fluff and you gonna get hay wet sooner or later. All my equiptment cost about $40000.

 

[JD3430]

The dealer with the Kubota got back with me. The more I research it, the more I think it might be a pretty good deal. Very low bales, pretty new, and while it is listed at a 4x5 baler, it shows to actually make up to a 65" bale. I really plan on probably just doing 4x5, but like the safety of being able to go a little bigger and/or not stressing it making 4x5. Any other thoughts on this baler? It's 4 hours from me, so if I went to look at it, it would only be if I was 90% sure I was getting it. The other dealer is much closer. It appears to have a automatic oil system, I like the wide belts with no big gaps, ike the idea of the Vermeer style bottom roller that takes a lot of weight off the belts, doesn't look overly complicated and doesn't have a mile of chains. Tires look small though, it looks like the pick-up would struggle with a tall windrow to me, (has a wide 79" pickup though). It's about a 6,000# baler made by Kverneland and is supposed to be a dry or silage capable European influenced baler. https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/183273293/2015-kubota-bv4160-prem?ST=Oklahoma%2CTexas&CTRY=USA , I'm kind of assuming it's a mid level, somewhere between the economy/utility balers (rebels, 459E, RB450 ect) and the heavier commercial style Deere and Vermeers?

The baler sounds ok, but might not be as trustworthy as a legacy name baler. Also, Kubota is only a few years into the hay tools market and your dealer MIGHT be clueless on support and repairs compared to a NH, Deere, CaseIH, AGCO dealer. If you need service, will you be able to get service? Do the homework to be sure before you buy. Might be good to check to see how many dealers are nearby for support.

As has been said, balers are pretty complex. You'll need service at some point. Will that dealer come through?

 

[Tx Jim]

As has been said, balers are pretty complex. You'll need service at some point. Will that dealer come through?

May I ask what is complex about a rd baler? Granted I've never been around a silage model or one with internal knives.

 

[JD3430]

May I ask what is complex about a rd baler? Granted I've never been around a silage model or one with internal knives.

I think you're on the higher end of the round baler repairing ability curve.

No slight against the OP, but I get the feeling he may not be on your level of round baler repair capability.

 

[Tx Jim]

I agree I probably have more experience repairing a rd baler than most but I'd still like to know what you & others consider ""complex about a rd baler"". I'm not looking for an argument just an answer.

Thanks,Jim