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Running Gear length capacity


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#1 Aaroncboo

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 04:43 PM

I have a few hay racks that need to built or rebuild this winter and I would like to know how long is advisable for the different tonnage wagons. I can only stack 5 high with the loader and grapple.

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#2 r82230

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 07:43 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb (hope I don't fall and hit my head AGAIN  :huh: ).  I'm thinking why not make it as long as 'fits' your needs, the controlling factor would be the running gear's tonnage capacity.  in my case every 15 bale grab is about 6' (in theory 70", with 5 - 14" bales on edge).  So in theory my 25' deck should be OK with 4 grabs, but it's close (would be better with another '). So realistically, 2'+ would work better.  IIRC, you are using a 10 bale, so a 6' wide grab, would be similar to my grabs in width (70" vs 72").   

 

With all that said, I would suggest a deck length of 13/14' or 19/20'  or 25/26'.  At 5 high you would be looking at 100 bales, 150 bales or 200 bales respectively.  And with 60# bales, you would be looking at 3 tons, 4.5 tons or 6 ton loads (also respectively).   This is all based on the wagon in the 3rd picture, looks like an old 2 ton that I gave to the Amish.  The front end was so loose that anything over 5-6 MPH, it was waving at you.  ;)

 

Now, if you have a heavy enough running go for 32', that would give you 250 bale load (7.5 tons), but you might need to think about the turning radius. :o

 

In any case lengthening what I call the reach (the piece between the axles), shouldn't be a problem IF you stay with heavy enough material.  Now for the stringers (the part on top of the axles, the deck attaches to), wood might be problematic.  Between the length and twisting action, I don't know about 26 or 32' ...............  My 25' is all steel, with no reach per se, routinely haul 375 or 420+, but it's on a 15 ton running gear.

 

Biggest thing is make your decks 102" wide, IMHO.

 

HTH

 

Larry


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#3 Aaroncboo

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 08:05 PM

I don't know that it matters but the 1st 2nd and 3rd pics are all 6 bolt rims. The last 2 are 5 bolt. I'd like to make them long enough for 3 grabs just to limit the number wagons.

#4 8350HiTech

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 08:17 PM

The only slightly issue I see relating deck length to chassis capacity is that your deck weight is going to increase thus eating into your available payload. But it isn’t going to make that much difference relative to the convenience of making it a length that beat suits you. I wouldn’t go entirely by the lugs per wheel and would assume you could pretty much treat each of your wagons as if they’re the same.

#5 Aaroncboo

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 09:03 PM

What size beams would you recommend for each length? I'd imagine that just like headers in a house there's a limit on weight to length.

#6 Jimmy Bartlett

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 09:22 PM

I sandwiched three treated 2x12s together on each side to make 20' stringers.   2' in front of the front bolster and 3' behind. these seem to be holding up to the weight alright, although i wish the deck was a little lower sometimes.  steel stringers would certainly be nice to have similar strength with a lower deck height. 



#7 Hayjosh

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 11:52 AM

I build my wagons using treated pine. I use two sistered 2x10  to make the main beams, they are screwed together with lag screws. Then 4x4 stringers on top of those, and 2x6 running the full length of the wagon. My wagons are 16' long by 8' wide, but I wish they were 18' long. They are John Deere 5 or 6 ton running gears, which is the best running gear I've found. I've built 4 of them for myself, and 3 tons of hay doesn't make them sag. If you were going to go 18',  might want to move up to 12" beams. It depends how far apart the running gear is set.

 

I would build them at the length that works for you. Most of my buyers want 100  bales and they come to the field and grab the wagon. 16' is an ok length for me to put 100 bales on that isn't excessively long, no sense in paying for the extra lumber because board prices do get really expensive as they get longer, but 18' would work better for what I do.



#8 gkuhns

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 05:08 PM

The rule of thumb I follow is to figure 15" per bale for bales on edge and 19" for bales on strings. This usually works out really well. You will thank yourself if you add an extra foot for the wagon length. It is nice to have that margin when you are in a hurry.

 

Also, leaning the upright back and making it strong enough to stack against is a great idea. If you lean it back 4" per layer of bales, you can stack tight against it and have a stairstep in the front. A tight load rides best.


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#9 r82230

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 06:18 PM

What size beams would you recommend for each length? I'd imagine that just like headers in a house there's a limit on weight to length.

I'm not an engineer by far (remember this ;)).  Here's what I'd probably do:

 

Now I'd probably use 2" x 10", 4 of them 20' long and 4 of them at 16' long.  Two of the 16' ones I'd cut to butt up to the running gear stake pockets (effectively locking the gear from sliding front to back).   Most likely an over hang in front of axle of 18" to 24", on the back axle 24" to 36".  If you go 24" and 36", you would cut two of the 16 footers to about 15' foot in length to butt up to stake pockets.

 

This would give me a deck of 20' long.  The reason for the 2x10's is to conserve height.  I would consider even 2x8's, but would add another to each side (remember I'm not an engineer, just farmerizing again).   The key on the height is clearance for your tires below the deck.  Full disclosure, I might have a 16' deck built with 2x8s.  Only used 2 on each side the FIRST time.  :rolleyes:

 

Now if you could get knot free lumber, maybe you could use less, but........................... IDK if that's possible.

 

YMMV for certain.

 

Larry

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#10 8350HiTech

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 07:31 PM

I'm not an engineer by far (remember this ;)). Here's what I'd probably do:

Now I'd probably use 2" x 10", 4 of them 20' long and 4 of them at 16' long. Two of the 16' ones I'd cut to butt up to the running gear stake pockets (effectively locking the gear from sliding front to back). Most likely an over hang in front of axle of 18" to 24", on the back axle 24" to 36". If you go 24" and 36", you would cut two of the 16 footers to about 15' foot in length to butt up to stake pockets.

This would give me a deck of 20' long. The reason for the 2x10's is to conserve height. I would consider even 2x8's, but would add another to each side (remember I'm not an engineer, just farmerizing again). The key on the height is clearance for your tires below the deck. Full disclosure, I might have a 16' deck built with 2x8s. Only used 2 on each side the FIRST time. :rolleyes:

Now if you could get knot free lumber, maybe you could use less, but........................... IDK if that's possible.

YMMV for certain.

Larry


Why not just bolt it tight rather than having different length lumber to lock it in? Two 3/4” bolts and holes is a really easy securing method.
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#11 Aaroncboo

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 09:59 PM

I have a load of telephone poles. By a load I mean like 60-70... Maybe I can cut a few down to 4x10s and use them as beams. Neighbor has a sawmill
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#12 r82230

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 10:09 PM

Why not just bolt it tight rather than having different length lumber to lock it in? Two 3/4” bolts and holes is a really easy securing method.

 

Could, but still would use two 16 footer to save on lumber cost (if buying).  I use to bolt corners, but didn't like the picking up of axles when empty with uneven ground.  One less flexing point/time, might not make a difference or maybe I'm just weird, possibly in need of medication.  :huh:

 

On one's that I did bolt, only did back ones, used a chain around the front axle to allow 'walking'.

 

Larry



#13 r82230

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 10:12 PM

I have a load of telephone poles. By a load I mean like 60-70... Maybe I can cut a few down to 4x10s and use them as beams. Neighbor has a sawmill

 

Any reason in making them square, I'm thinking why not just flat on top/bottom.  Wouldn't  the extra wood remaining be extra strength?

 

Larry

 

PS thinking about old barn beams, maybe just flatting the top a little, couple of flat notches at the axles, retaining all the wood possible.


Edited by r82230, 02 November 2020 - 10:17 PM.

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#14 Aaroncboo

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 10:24 PM

Thought about that too. That's how I made the one in the picture. But like hi-tech said. The extra weight may eat into the capacity. Will it gain me more than I lose?

#15 8350HiTech

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 10:26 PM

Could, but still would use two 16 footer to save on lumber cost (if buying). I use to bolt corners, but didn't like the picking up of axles when empty with uneven ground. One less flexing point/time, might not make a difference or maybe I'm just weird, possibly in need of medication. :huh:

On one's that I did bolt, only did back ones, used a chain around the front axle to allow 'walking'.

Larry


Note I did say two bolts, so that would indeed allow one axle to be chained. I always bolt fronts and chain rears personally but not sure how much if any difference that alternative makes.

#16 Beav

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Posted 03 November 2020 - 11:11 PM

for our 10 bale flat grabs 23' length 8' wide 3 grabs 5 high then 2 more grabs on top to tie in 170 bales 12 x 12 runners 8 ton gears 



#17 weatherman

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Posted 05 November 2020 - 01:47 PM

I had to rebuild the front end of a Kory running gear. When I ordered parts, I spoke to Dennis at Kory (http://www.koryfarm....nning-gears.php) who knows running gears and enjoys talking about them. Myself, stretch them out to fit your needs within the running gear specs. I have five 20ft hay wagons stacking with a grapple on edge.



#18 Aaroncboo

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Posted 08 November 2020 - 08:45 PM

OK so another question. Those racks that have boards going lengthwise and beams width wise on the main beams vs the two beams with the widthwise boards all the way down. Is there a structural difference between the two? I have both and the lengthwise boards are on 4x5 main beams and 4x4 cross beams and the widthwise boards are on 2 bolted together 2x10s. Both seem to work well. Just wondering about differences in main beam strength.

#19 r82230

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Posted 08 November 2020 - 11:14 PM

I wouldn't think your 4x4 cross beams are giving any strength to your 4x5 beams. 2 bolted together 2x10 would seem to have a lot more strength than the 4x5. IMHO  Then again I NOT an engineer by far.  :o

 

Using the 4x4 might give you the ability to use thinner deck boards, if closely spaced.  FWIW, I just used 2x6's for the deck across the main beams on my wagons. Now if you need to get the deck higher to clear the tires, you could add something to the bottom of the 2x10's at the axles.  Example; a short piece of 2x4 oak, stay 12" - 18" in length.

 

IIRC, you want to have your deck as low as possible, so no 4x4s would not be in my design.  Might even notch the 2x10's at the axle if possible.  Think how they notched barn beams, you need the strength in the middle, not so much on the ends. 

 

Larry


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#20 weatherman

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Posted 09 November 2020 - 09:50 PM

I’m with Larry. I’m no engineer either so I went with my gut instincts. Went with 3 bolted 2x10s per stringer and 4x4 cross width space about ~18” apart, laying 20ft 2x8 for the deck.




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