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How should I go slower when in first gear?


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#1 AKFARMER

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 09:50 PM

I have a John Deere 5065E utility tractor that I use for my small farm, and have been using for about 8 years now. My tractor has a standard shift transmission (nine forward gears and three reverse). Sometimes, when using a PTO required attachment, I need to go slower than first gear allows me to go with the engine rpm set to 2400 (the proper engine rpm for the PTO to be at 540 rpm). To make things worse, sometimes I need to vary my ground speed. I have two choices to choose from to reduce my ground speed to what I need it to be:
Choice 1 - ride the clutch... this choice is bad for the clutch!
Choice 2 - ride the brakes... this choice is bad for the brakes!

Which do you recommend I choose? And, why?

I guess there is another choice, I could sell my old tractor and buy one with the infinite variable ground speed and independent PTO speed (like my wife's 30hp Kubota has). Someday when I win the non-existent lottery, I will be all over this option.

#2 r82230

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 10:34 PM

AK welcome to HT.

 

Choice 1, my answer is no.

Choice 2, my answer is no.

 

Need more info on what kind/type of PTO equipment you are running that requires such slow ground speeds.  Maybe if your tractor has option, switch to 1000 PTO, with an adapter has been utilized in some cases.  Not recommended to do so most of the time.  An unsuspecting operator could ruin a lot quickly doing this adaption.  :o

 

Some equipment can stand to run at less than 540 RPM, also.  I run my tedder and rotary rakes at slower RPMs,   There are folks on here that run their RB at less than 540 RPM too.  That's why the question about what equipment came to mind.

 

Larry


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#3 Gearclash

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 10:46 PM

You can’t slow the ground speed of a gear drive tractor down relative to the pto speed with the brakes unless the clutch is slipping.  If the clutch were to slip in this situation, it would be slipping under full clutch engagement pressure.  This would cause extreme wear to the clutch.  The only real way to slow your ground speed relative to your pto speed in your particular situation is to “ride the clutch”.  While this is not good for the clutch, if it is done infrequently, for short periods of time (let’s say less than half a minute at a time), and under light loads the clutch won’t suffer too badly.  The key is to prevent excessive heat build up in the clutch.  Slippage under heavy load makes heat really really fast.  


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#4 somedevildawg

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 10:47 PM


I’m of the same thinking....what type equipment are you using behind the tractor?
I have a cousin that moved to Alaska to teach high school, both he and his wife...they were suppose to stay 5 years, they made it two :o said when he first got there a local took him to a lake, as they were walking thru high grass to get to the lake, the feller asks my cousin “what do you keep looking at the ground for?” My cousin replied “snakes”...to which the feller replied “we have no snakes in Alaska” stupid South Georgia boy didn’t have any idea. Around here if you’re walking to a body of water thru high grass, Mr Noshoulders is lurking somewhere, need to be vigilant...
Welcome to Haytalk
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#5 bool

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 11:36 PM

Options with existing tractor, unmodified, include taking a narrower cut and using engine-driven equipment. These may not be practical.

 

You may be able to have a creeper option installed. Failing that, you might need to buy another tractor.

 

Roger



#6 AKFARMER

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 02:07 AM

Here are the three main reasons that I have to go slower than first gear:

Potato harvestering - when there are either too many rocks in the potato row or when there are more potatoes than the pickers (the people riding on the harvester who grab the potatoes and put them in buckets) can keep up with.

Combining barley- my 1951 Alice Chalmers All Crop 60 sometimes can't combine the barley as quickly as it goes into the combine when in first gear.

Knocking down trees - I end up riding the clutch a lot when knocking down 8 to 14 inch diameter trees. I knock them over so that their stumps are removed at the same time.

#7 AKFARMER

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 02:17 AM


Somedevildawg: Indeed there are no snakes here, BUT there are bears.

My wife got to see a bald eagle today.... as it swooped down and then flew away with one of our chickens in its claws. I guess that I am going to have to get that netting up soon, we can't afford to feed the bald eagles for too long.

Also, thank you for your service in the USMC.
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#8 bool

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 03:43 AM

All good reasons to go slow. You could take a narrower cut in first gear with the combining but not for the other two jobs. Nor is engine drive a practical option. So either see if you can get a creeper option installed or buy another tractor even if it just a rough one for slow speed jobs.

 

Roger



#9 r82230

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:14 AM

Potato harvesting perhaps a stop and go, could be utilized, which could help minimize the wear.

 

Barley harvesting, as Bool mentions are both go options.

 

The trees, will be hard on clutch as most loader type work is.  How is the PTO involved in this type work is my question? I'm thinking if you're removing a lot of trees an excavator could be a better choice in equipment verses using (possibly destroying a tractor).

 

Larry



#10 8350HiTech

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:33 AM

I would certainly consider another tractor, but failing that I would look at smaller wheels and tires, depending on the other jobs you do that don’t require a lower than low gear. For limited occasions, I’m with Gear on riding the clutch.

Oh, and you don’t need an IVT, you just need to resaesrch which tractors have a lower first gear and ideally more total gears than you have now, which would include many tractors of the same age and older than your E

#11 Tx Jim

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:36 AM

Installing smaller diameter tires will lower maximum travel speed.  If I'm comprehending 5065E parts catalog correctly only 12X12 trans was offered with option of creeper gears.



#12 gradyjohn

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 09:00 AM

Installing smaller diameter tires will lower maximum travel speed.  If I'm comprehending 5065E parts catalog correctly only 12X12 trans was offered with option of creeper gears.

I agree or get a tractor with the creeper. Don't know if JD 5000 series has that option. Seems to me you need a bigger tractor.



#13 Hayman1

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 09:24 AM

I am in the sell the tractor and get something else better suited to your needs.  You should be able to do that for fairly even money if you get an older tractor than you currently have.  I got rid of two tractors that had that dang 9 speed.  No gear seemed right other than high going down the road.  For what you are doing with it, thinking at least 16 speeds and maybe as noted a creeper gear for potatoes.  There is nothing you can do that I am aware of to make the AC 60 process faster.  They were good combines but slow compared to anything considerably later on.  Put a lot of cylinder bars in those babies when in high school working at the AC dealer.



#14 Trillium Farm

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 09:30 AM

Does your tractor have Hi & Lo ranges? If it does switch from hi to low, if you haven't already done so.



#15 AKFARMER

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 11:37 AM

My 5065E is the first tractor that I have ever purchased. The others that I have been around belonged to the farmer(s) I was working for but I never operated, as a farmhand I was always doing the more labor intensive work. So, making a few errors in my purchase choices was almost inevitable (e.g. I wish that I had gotten two rear SCVs).

Anyway, I appreciate the input and will look into smaller diameter tires, on their own wheels ofcourse. Then, switching tires for those specific tasks shouldn't be too big of a deal. Thus, when I am tilling, planting, raking, baling, etc., I can use the stock tires.

#16 Gearclash

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:47 PM

Do the math before spending money on different wheels.  I think you will be disappointed at how small the speed change will be at low speeds.  When I was looking at different tire diameters on my tractors, the difference when going up/down an RCI group at a 20mph road speed was only about 2-3 mph.  At 2 mph that would be a mere .2-.3 mph.


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#17 bool

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:48 PM

I doubt you will get enough gear reduction by using smaller tires on smaller diameter rims. How much slower do you need to go? I would suggest 3/4 the speed will still not be enough, you need more like 1/2 the speed. Do the math on how much smaller the wheels and tires will need to be.

 

And it's a pain changing wheels. It is a big deal. They are heavy and awkward. They hurt if the fall on you. You will always have the wrong wheels on it for the job you are about to do. You will be in a hurry and tempted to use it with the wrong wheels. Also, smaller wheels give less traction, and tree pushing needs traction. Potato harvesting probably does too. But the small wheels will not provide as much traction as big wheels. You might have to add weight (either water or iron), which will make the wheekl heavier and harder to change. It's just not worth it.

 

Sell your tractor and buy one that does what you need. Lots of gears, including creeper option, and more SCVs, maybe even get 3 SCVs while you can! Treat your current tractor as a learning experience. By the sound of things you have learnt a lot from it.

 

Roger


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#18 AKFARMER

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 07:02 PM

Yes Rodger (aka bool) I have learned quite a lot. One of the issues with just running out to purchase another tractor is that due to my remote location I have a very limited selection, unless I am willing to purchase a brand new one, which costs a lot!

In part due to the need for funds, I have just sold my potato harvester and will be digging this year's potato harvest by hand. Anyone want to volunteer to help? But at least I don't have to worry about ground speed with it anymore.

#19 bool

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 11:11 PM

You need a different tractor though. Your current one does not meet your needs. Even with a limited selection a suitable one will turn up eventually. You now know what to look for. Meanwhile, you can take a narrower cut with the barley harvesting. You won't be driving the potato harvester. Can you borrow or rent a suitable tractor to push the trees?

 

Roger



#20 endrow

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 05:22 AM

Brings back memories when i was a kid  the tractors on the corn chopper did not go slow enough in low gear in a  heavy corn crop . if you had live pto ride the clutch . I remember chopping geen feed with a Farmall H and a Flail chopper . Popping it in and out of gear it was very trickey






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