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What is a Government Farmer?


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#1 Palmettokat

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 06:22 PM

On another forum someone said he was not a "Government Farmer".  Made my mind wander...I asked is that someone who raises GOVERNMETS and how do you plant them and such.    

 

So I thought would ask REAL Farmers what they call a "Government Farmer"?

 

 



#2 Aaroncboo

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 06:54 PM

Talk about crappy crops. Too many weeds... Lol
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#3 Vol

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 08:37 PM

Subsidized. 

 

Regards, Mike


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#4 swmnhay

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 09:46 PM

Yep agriculture is heavily subsidized to insure a abundance of cheap food for the masses.Some will find a angle to by pass rules or out right fraud to get bigger subsidies.

Hay isn’t subsidized near as much as some grain crops.

A lot of subsidies and programs in name of conservation also.
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#5 stack em up

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 10:05 PM

I can see this thread going down the shitter real soon....

I don’t like taking subsidies, but I take them anyway. I’m not going to put myself and my farm at a disadvantage for the sake of pride. If markets were truly supply/demand, people in USA would be spending a lot more money on food per year. Like Cy said, it’s a way to guarantee cheap food.
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#6 somedevildawg

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 10:36 PM

Well....it does create cheaper food but it’s artificially cheaper, not in reality....folks always like to say we have cheap food costs, and that’s true to the guy/gal that buys their food at the grocery store, but when the subsides are added it’s not so cheap anymore, so there ya have it....if I were “King for a Day” I would abolish all of the gubmit subsides and lets just pay what the food costs....but it’s all tied to SNAP, school lunches (got to serve breakfast nowadays so I should say school feeding, for free..), and such. I personally think that we should do away with all of them subsides with some exceptions. It’s all fraught with fraud and abuse....makes me sick that we got ourselves in this position, but it took some time.
One example....planting and never intending to get a crop. We call those guys government farmers....it’s a tough way to make a living but lots of em do it every year, no real oversite in place to prevent it apparently cause it’s the same ones year after year.
Same thing with these covid PPP payments, there will be abuse from the corporate executive down to the greenhorn....it’s a sad trait amongst us humans, it’s called greed.
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#7 BWfarms

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 10:41 PM

I took subsidized grass seed due to hurricane flooding but it wasn't Government, it was backed by the premiums I paid into Farm Bureau Insurance. They heavily sponser enough crap that I was willing to take something for the 'free' money I gave them.

I don't bother applying for Government subsidies, I don't even qualify. It's for the best anyways, less meddling.

#8 swmnhay

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Posted 25 May 2020 - 07:27 AM

All Farmers get a black eye when someone commits crop insurance fraud.It doesn’t happen near as often as some think.There are checks and balances to keep it from happening.A automatic audit happens after a claim gets over so much and you have to have scale tickets or bins measured.

Unfortunatly it does happen and tends to be large farms that have multiple entities that can shuffle grain to make one farm look bad.Yea if they are crooked it would be easy for them to do!
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#9 JD3430

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Posted 25 May 2020 - 07:40 AM

Luckily I don’t qualify for any gubmit handouts being a lowly mulch hay farmer.  :D It’s sink or swim.  :lol: 
Happy Memorial Day.  :)



#10 slowzuki

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Posted 25 May 2020 - 11:52 AM

No subsidies up here for hay farming. Not even Government funded Ag extension services. We do have a property tax deferral to help prevent good ag land from being developed as we don’t have land zoning in most areas.

#11 Uphayman

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Posted 25 May 2020 - 12:31 PM

Pretty hard to escape farm subsidies......tell your lender your going to pass on insuring the crop that he's supposed to borrow you money for. See how that works out......

"The Department of Agriculture (USDA) sets premium rates for federal crop insurance so that the premiums equal the expected payments to farmers for crop losses. The federal government pays about 60 percent of total premiums, on average, and farmers pay about 40 percent. "

(From USDA 2018)
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#12 Tim/South

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Posted 25 May 2020 - 08:30 PM

I qualify to get $33 per head of cattle in innovatory. I will cash that check.
I would be much happier if the government would fix the price fixing and level the playing field. I fear too much lobby money has changed hands for that to happen.
I can see where there will be no cattle on this farm in the future. Been some cattle here since 1840's.

I wonder how many city folk accepted the $1200 stimulus check? 


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#13 Palmettokat

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Posted 25 May 2020 - 09:07 PM

Well as the saying goes as a stupid question...I had not thought about crop insurance but did not realize there really was that much subsidzing in the farming industry.  Well I say that for really at one time knew the web site where all those numbers are posted and what I found was there was a lot going to land owners who did not farm themselves. 

 

I also did know there are government grants for certain crop or use of land. 

 

On the crop insurance, had a friend who worked with crop insurance. He told me one day on fraud cases he run into. Per him when there is fraud it seemed there was a dirty adjuster. 


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#14 r82230

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 10:06 AM

Seem some folks see the amount of $$$$ that go to the USDA and think 'wow looky at all money going to the farmers'.  Little do those folks realize that the majority of the USDA budget goes else wear (SNAP is a pretty large replicant IIRC :o).

 

Larry


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#15 Tim/South

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 09:55 PM

Seem some folks see the amount of $$$$ that go to the USDA and think 'wow looky at all money going to the farmers'.  Little do those folks realize that the majority of the USDA budget goes else wear (SNAP is a pretty large replicant IIRC :o).

 

Larry

80% goes to free food programs. Trump wanted to remove free food from the USDA umbrella. Was nixed on the notion. If the American people knew how much money was spent each month on entitlements there would be a revolt. As long as the farm bill is disguised as helping farmers provide affordable food then it looks better.


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#16 IH 1586

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 05:47 AM

I never wanted to go back to having insurance or anything that requires reporting but this is my first year with rain insurance. Decided a little insurance would be a good thing. So I guess I'm back to getting hand outs if it were to ever quit raining.


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#17 swmnhay

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 06:15 AM

The farm program was changed after the 80’s and that’s when they started subsidizing the crop insurance more.Instead of being based just on bushels per acre it became based on revenue.it was called a safety net.Well one thing it did do when taking some risk out of farming was to drive up rent and land prices because it lowered the financial risk.
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#18 luke strawwalker

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Posted 28 May 2020 - 01:31 AM

We USED to be in the farm programs but I haven't messed with it in YEARS... I used to take Grandma to sign the farm up and make the "program elections" and stuff, read up on it and attended the meetings to learn about it, because when we row cropped cotton subsidies were basically about half of rice, but still about double corn or any other grain crop... when we quit cotton when the boll weevil program upped our expenses 20% overnight and went all sorghum and soybeans, we took a hit, but the program payments were really falling by that point anyway under "Freedom to Farm" (the 96 farm bill) and a lot of the new stuff it introduced.  We actually didn't take as big a hit as we would have a few years earlier, because of 'decoupling', when USDA was trying to encourage farmers to try more diverse and different crops, rather than sticking to the "status quo" which in many cases was, whatever had the highest gubmint payments that would grow in their area... That was when they started trying to move the program from "paying farmers not to plant" to more of a 'safety net' mentality, while upping subsidies to insurance and stuff and moving to market-price driven "deficiency payments" that increased as crop prices fell through their own convoluted figuring process, versus just plain "base acres by crop" type pricing.  I remember the old "set aside" acres back during the mid-late 80's when they were actually paying farmers NOT to plant certain percentages of your acres to help eliminate the surpluses that were swamping the markets at the time... that REALLY got city folk's dander up!  Back then to participate in the program, you HAD to agree to set asides defined by the gubmint and to the terms of the set-aside.  SO there were years when we were paid X amount to NOT plant up to about 25% of our acreage, as I recall (I was a teenager then and helping Grandma and Dad do the paperwork).  We found out that we could PLANT haygrazer on our set-aside acres, SO LONG as we DID NOT HARVEST IT until after the set-aside period was over in October, then we could bale it to our heart's content... so we'd plant the set-aside acres in haygrazer and cut it a day or two after the set-aside period elapsed, in case they checked, and then baled it up.  Harder to make dry hay that time of year, but it worked pretty well actually, and provided hay for our cattle.  

 

When Grandma passed in '06, Dad took over the farm business and basically cut me out of the loop; I was just a "hired hand" in his eyes I suppose... He reneged on a lot of the agreements Grandma and I had made over the years.  Spring of '07 he tosses me the USDA program paperwork and tells me "you go sign up for the money for me, but I'm not paying you your share like Grandma did"... That was kinda the last straw for me and I tossed it right back to him and said, "if you're gonna cut me out, get it yourself!".  Kinda PO'd him but that was his tough luck-- I'd had enough and he'd already cut me out of some other things, so I didn't really give a rip at that point.  He'd been puttering with it ever since.  We had quit row cropping altogether after 2003, but we still had base acres on the Needville place and thus were entitled to the "guaranteed payments" which is a part of the program, with the rest being "deficiency payments" based on crop prices versus base prices for the year, etc.  SO some years they got a few hundred bucks up to between 1-2K, some years not.  The cattle and hay programs down here in Texas are a bad joke from what I've seen... Dad was running around the farm taking pictures of a half-dozen or so dead cows after the 2010 drought for some gubmint payment for dead livestock from the drought; think he said he got about $300 out of it... (wouldn't buy one replacement heifer LOL:)  I heard of folks up in the Panhandle who suffered through HUGE fires up there that burned DOZENS of miles of fence to the ground, lost hundreds or thousands of head of cattle burned to death in box canyons and stuff in the Permian Basin, etc. who tallied up over a half-million in direct losses and put in for the "gubmint assistance" after doing about 200 pages of paperwork and only got paid about $300-400 in the end... IOW not worth the time or effort.  

 

Last dealing I had with USDA/NRCS offices here was when I was trying to get "fencing and watering assistance" from NRCS... they pay half of cattle watering and cross-fencing costs, which on the surface sounds good, BUT when they print off TWELVE PAGES of how to build a fence to THEIR standards, and another 20 pages on how to install a water system for the back 40 to THEIR specs, and you realize that it's gonna cost you $12,000 bucks to install it THEIR way, to get $6k back, and you have to keep it up for 20 YEARS or risk having to pay the money back... I reverted to my original plan-- built a boot for the subsoiler and chiseled in 400 feet of 3/4 inch poly pipe to the back 40 and put 2 10 foot diameter steel troughs back there with float valves on them, whole project was about $600 bucks... The fencing was the same thing.  i can't afford help like that!  LOL:)  

 

Anyway, for awhile guys like Senator Luger from Indiana wanted to do away with farm program payments entirely and make it ALL subsidized crop insurance... that was another of those "I can't afford help like that" moments IMHO... when the program made it "mandatory" to have crop insurance, we usually just got the "Cat" (catastrophic) insurance through the county USDA office-- $100 per crop per county, so if you grew all your crops in one county and had corn and cotton, it was $200-- 100 for cotton, 100 for corn, in one county.  If you had ground in TWO counties being used for crops, it would have been $400 for corn and cotton if both were being grown in both counties... or $200 if you only grew corn in one county, and only cotton in the other... Cat coverage only paid like 50% of the "county yield" (which was a figure from about 1950 the figure was so low) times 50% of your acres time 50% of the average price for the year, so IOW if you were completely wiped out you MIGHT get a 50% of 50% of 50% payment (like Roscoe P. Coltrane) or 1/8 of the money, in a BEST CASE SCENARIO... better than nothing I guess.  We did "buyup" crop insurance for a few years as production prices increased a LOT in the mid-late 90's and we were trying to cover our investment better, even though we "farmed on our own nickel" and didn't borrow ANY money to grow a crop (Grandma paid off the last of the farm loans with gas well money in the early 80's and the day she came home from the bank for the last time she said then "the day we ever have to borrow money again to farm is the day we quit farming!")  We got 75% one year, 80% one year, and like 85% one year-- we never could afford the 90 or 95% coverage, as the price REALLY jumped at that level... The cost wasn't terrible, but when we DID have a weather event and crop damage or losses, ultimately the payments were basically either just enough to cover our part of the premiums (which at that time was farmer paid 50%, gubmint paid the other 50% of the insurance premiums) so basically it was at best a break-even proposition, so after seeing how it worked first hand, we just dropped it and went back to "cat" coverage... the crop insurance program is there to protect the bankers loaning money to produce crops, NOT the farmer... Saw plenty of guys "farming the system" over the years as well, seems they could always get a good payoff, but then EVERY DOLLAR they farmed with was borrowed too... Oh well, that's "the system" and I can't afford help like that LOL :)  

 

Later!  OL J R :) 



#19 endrow

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Posted 29 May 2020 - 12:32 PM

There is far more at your local USDA office other  than the FSA,free lunch line . NSRCS/ conservation district and FSA and The extension service/ County Agent . All those are important resources  for me . It is not all about free lunches. . Many farmers in this area want nothing to do with it  but when there is a program that pays ,they are first in line trying to late file and get the bucks and then complain about having to comply. 


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#20 Palmettokat

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Posted 29 May 2020 - 08:34 PM

luke, reading some of your points reminding me of the ole saying...I'm from the government and here to help you...

 

Over the years have seen some fields when they were planted knew it was only for crop insurance payment. 


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