Need advise on tractor purchase to pull round baler - Tractor Talk - HayTalk - Hay & Forage Community

Jump to content




Photo

Need advise on tractor purchase to pull round baler

John deere 4020 Case 1070 International 966 International 856 International 1086 John deere 4230 White 2-105 Round baler

  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 MT357

MT357

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 4 posts
  • LocationHot Springs MT

Posted 11 March 2020 - 01:58 AM

I am looking for a good used tractor with a loader to use primarily for haying, ie, pull the disc mower, round baler, and to load hay. May use it to pull a disc and cultapacker about once every 5 years or so to replant the alfalfa fields.

Just looking for something reliable and simple to maintain. I am only raising hay on 80 irrigated acres now but I am trying to purchase another 80 to 160.

I have found the following tractors in my price range, but I have never been around any of them, we have always have had Fords. You comments good or bad are appreciated.

This is a list of the tractors I am looking at with the model #, hours, and price. All are clean and have loaders and a cab.

International 1086, 8800 hours, Torque Amplifier transmission, $8400

International 966, 4600 hours, 8 speed Torque Amplifier transmission, $9100

International 856, 8600 hours, 8 speed Torque Amplifier transmission, $6000

Case 1070, 8100 hours, Power Shift transmission, $4400

White 2-105, 6500 hours, Hydraul-Shift, $9200

John Deere 4230, 8400 hours, Partial Power Shift, $8700

John Deere 4020, 11000 hours. 200 hours since overhauled, Full Power Shift transmission, $8700

#2 8350HiTech

8350HiTech

    Hay Master

  • Members
  • 5355 posts
  • LocationOrrstown, PA

Posted 11 March 2020 - 06:10 AM

I hate to be that guy but none of these jump out as being particularly loader-friendly as far as their transmissions, so to me it would depend how much of it’s use will be for loader jobs. There is a lot of functional value in each one though for the money, just a lack of comforts and convenience.
  • DSLinc1017, Trillium Farm, Wrenchhead1968 and 1 other like this

#3 Tx Jim

Tx Jim

    Hay Master

  • Members
  • 4386 posts
  • LocationCoyote Flats,Texas

Posted 11 March 2020 - 06:26 AM

Do any of these tractors listed have a cab? A cab will help preserve tractor operator's lungs especially when pulling a rd baler.

 

I'd pick the the 4230 with the 16 speed trans & hyd(wet) traction clutch.  I've read good reviews about those White & Case tractor models but I'm unaware of # of forward speeds each has. 4020's have been good tractors but Powershift trans only has 8 fwd gears.  I've read good reviews about these White & Case tractor models but don't know # of forward speeds of each brand nor have I ever drive either brand.. 

 

I'm not attempting to offend loyal IHC tractor owners BUT I definitely after having driven a IHC 986 several yrs back wouldn't pick it or the other IHC's because to me they are not operator friendly enough to suit my ornery old body.


  • Wrenchhead1968 and MT357 like this

#4 MT357

MT357

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 4 posts
  • LocationHot Springs MT

Posted 11 March 2020 - 06:34 AM

I have been pulling my old John Deere 510 for 20 years without a cab, that's one of the reasons for the upgrade. Picked up a lightly used Vermeer 604 SuperJ and now I am looking for a tractor with a CAB to pull it. Tired of looking like a coal miner at the end of the day.

#5 MT357

MT357

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 4 posts
  • LocationHot Springs MT

Posted 11 March 2020 - 06:36 AM

I found a John Deere 4520 with 4100 hours, cab, loader, but not a lot of creature comfort. $9000
  • Tx Jim likes this

#6 IH 1586

IH 1586

    Hay Master

  • Members
  • 1978 posts
  • LocationNorthwest PA. Warren County.

Posted 11 March 2020 - 07:18 AM

I found a John Deere 4520 with 4100 hours, cab, loader, but not a lot of creature comfort. $9000

 

You don't want those older cabs and the 4520 only came with 1000 pto. No experience with Case or White. All the others listed I would not want to have a loader on. The most comfortable one listed for all day running on a round baler is the 4230. I am bias on JD though. Just purchased my first quad range last year. Not sure how I would like to run a loader on it but of your current listing it may be the best. 


  • mike23, 8350HiTech, VA Haymaker and 1 other like this

#7 Gearclash

Gearclash

    Hay Master (Supposedly)

  • Members
  • 3449 posts
  • LocationSioux County, NWIA

Posted 11 March 2020 - 08:22 AM

The three Internationals will all have the same basic drivetrain.  Of them, the 1086 will have the nicest cab by far but there are generally more complaints about shifting them than the older Internationals.  The 1086 will be the only of the 3 with a factory turbo.  


  • MT357 likes this

#8 Tx Jim

Tx Jim

    Hay Master

  • Members
  • 4386 posts
  • LocationCoyote Flats,Texas

Posted 11 March 2020 - 10:17 AM

I found a John Deere 4520 with 4100 hours, cab, loader, but not a lot of creature comfort. $9000

Ditto what IH 1586 stated about 1000 rpm only pto on JD 4520. I remember when 4520's were new & I certainly wouldn't choose a 4520 for a rd baling tractor.


  • MT357 likes this

#9 r82230

r82230

    Hay Master

  • Members
  • 3981 posts
  • LocationThumb of Michigan

Posted 11 March 2020 - 12:45 PM

Thinking that I'm spending your money here are my thoughts:

 

  1. Double your budget (add about $10K) and buy a newer 80-100HP tractor with cab, or
  2. Buy two of your older tractors listed.

Rational for #1, possibly more dependable and a working A/C with a cab, while baling could be important (I'm assuming it gets warm in YOUR area, during haying season).

Rational for #2, a backup tractor for baling, could be important (I'm assuming that you are as lucky as me, with breakdowns happening at the most un-opportune times).

 

I've RB without a cab, RB with a cab with no A/C, RB with a cab with a non-working A/C and RB with a cab with a working A/C.  By golly, I will never go back to the first three listed options again, except in a emergency case only.

 

My barely two cents today, but it seems to be more fun spending someone else's $$$. ;)

 

Larry


  • DSLinc1017, clowers, IH 1586 and 3 others like this

#10 IH 1586

IH 1586

    Hay Master

  • Members
  • 1978 posts
  • LocationNorthwest PA. Warren County.

Posted 11 March 2020 - 04:46 PM

Thinking that I'm spending your money here are my thoughts:

 

  1. Double your budget (add about $10K) and buy a newer 80-100HP tractor with cab, or
  2. Buy two of your older tractors listed.

Rational for #1, possibly more dependable and a working A/C with a cab, while baling could be important (I'm assuming it gets warm in YOUR area, during haying season).

Rational for #2, a backup tractor for baling, could be important (I'm assuming that you are as lucky as me, with breakdowns happening at the most un-opportune times).

 

I've RB without a cab, RB with a cab with no A/C, RB with a cab with a non-working A/C and RB with a cab with a working A/C.  By golly, I will never go back to the first three listed options again, except in a emergency case only.

 

My barely two cents today, but it seems to be more fun spending someone else's $$$. ;)

 

Larry

 

 

I did the round baling with cab no ac and had a thermometer on phone, I believe it was 120 in there last I looked. Was  not fun. Would open side window when going the correct way with the wind to avoid the dust. I got it working the next season.


  • Wrenchhead1968 and MT357 like this

#11 Hayman1

Hayman1

    Gourmet Horse Hay Producer

  • Members
  • 2704 posts
  • LocationMillwood VA

Posted 11 March 2020 - 05:09 PM

Fairly young farmer died from heat stroke from baling in cab w/o air about 5 years ago.   I believe he had some underlying health issue but still it’s serious business.


  • MT357 likes this

#12 danwi

danwi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • 422 posts
  • Locationwi

Posted 11 March 2020 - 09:40 PM

If your doing 80 acres of hay and looking at going to 240 I wouldn't want my mowing and baling tractor to have a loader on. If any of those tractors have had a loader all their life look good at the front ends spindle and wheels and bearings and if they did loader work they may be on a second or third clutch with those hours. Just for mowing and baling the 1086 and 4230 would be ok followed by the white, If I was going case I would look for at least a 90 series a little better cab. One thing I do when I take the loader tractor to the other farm to rake hay and then load bales latter so I only have to take one tractor Is I will set the bale forks on the side of the field when raking so I have less weight on the front of the tractor.


  • 8350HiTech, Trillium Farm, Beav and 1 other like this

#13 Beav

Beav

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 668 posts
  • Locationlockport il

Posted 17 March 2020 - 03:38 PM

We used a case CX-80 and AC-185 with out cabs and a loader to round bale with, IMO having the loader on the baling tractor is bad for 3 reasons. 

 

1. hard on front end of tractor

2. have to slow down when baling because the loader bounces 

3. Can't load bales and bale at same time.

 

That being said none of those tractors would work for me to old, cabs suck hot, loud and uncomfortable, they are reasonably priced for what they are and they at not even average loader tractors. We bale 250 acres of hay 20000+ sm squares and 300-500 4x5 round bales JD 7400 runs the disc-bine JD-6420 runs sm square baler & accumulator, NH t4-95 runs tedder, 4221 rotary rake and round baler a JD 5055 runs a 3200 gt rotary rake.We use a telehandler and skid loader to move round bales and run a grapple. With as much hay as you are considering one tractor to do all those jobs is not going to be easy. We may have more equipment then most but 2 of the 3 partners work full time off the farm. Good luck but I think you need two tractors, 60 to 80 hp loader tractor and 100 to 160 hp tractor to bale with. 


  • MT357 likes this

#14 MT357

MT357

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 4 posts
  • LocationHot Springs MT

Posted 20 March 2020 - 11:18 PM

Found a Case 1896, cab, loader heat and AC. Thoughts

#15 chevytaHOE5674

chevytaHOE5674

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • 373 posts
  • LocationOntonagon, Mi

Posted 21 March 2020 - 07:34 AM

Case 1896 has a Cummins 5.9 in it which is a great motor. The powershift trans is good when working but of it ever needs work parts are expensive and hard to find, replaced a few shifting solinoids in them. Don't leave the powershift in reverse with the pto running while stationary for any length of time or you will be rebuilding it. The shifting doesnt make for a great loader experience but it'll get the job done. If it's been taken care of and in good shape they are decent old horses.
  • MT357 likes this

#16 8350HiTech

8350HiTech

    Hay Master

  • Members
  • 5355 posts
  • LocationOrrstown, PA

Posted 21 March 2020 - 07:56 AM

Case 1896 has a Cummins 5.9 in it which is a great motor. The powershift trans is good when working but of it ever needs work parts are expensive and hard to find, replaced a few shifting solinoids in them. Don't leave the powershift in reverse with the pto running while stationary for any length of time or you will be rebuilding it. The shifting doesnt make for a great loader experience but it'll get the job done. If it's been taken care of and in good shape they are decent old horses.


Agree, decent baler tractor but not terribly desirable loader tractor. Aftermarket powershift parts are readily available unless it gets so bad a cast housing needs replacing. So don’t let it get that bad.
  • MT357 likes this

#17 Wrenchhead1968

Wrenchhead1968

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 24 posts
  • LocationSwmn

Posted 21 March 2020 - 08:14 AM

4230 with soundgard cab would be the most comfortable by far of all said tractors.Texjim hit the nail on the head with the wet clutch.i pull a jd567 with my jd 4040 with quad range, grew up running dad's 4430 with the quad range, and have a 4230 with quad range for smaller jobs. Each and everyone of our quad ranges have had to been rebuilt. Very expensive. They always got damaged by hired help or when we would borrow the tractors out to friends and neighbors. I swear to God I will never ever borrow my 4040 out ever again I borrowed it to A neighbor and "D" range was knocked out. You absolutely cannot shift from any of the ranges on the fly. A through D you must be completely stopped. My dad always says slip the clutch if you have to that's tough as hell. He is correct , When I rebuilt mine my clutch was in excellent condition although I did put a new one in when I had it split. Be prepared to spend $10-$15,000 if you ever have to open up A quad range transmission on them 30 and 40 series John Deere tractors. You'll find all kinds of stuff to fix in there besides the transmission . Things like the draft control that isn't working correctly. I had to utilize limit chains on my 4040 for my desk board in order to have some type of heights control. We have a Miller loader on the 4430 for quite a few years nothing wrong with it. A lot better than trying to operate my uncles 1066 with the loader on it. I do love that 1066 that's an awesome tractor I would rather have a loader on a quad range tractor than a powershift you can move the shifter straightforward and straight back. We have loaders on our 4020 tractors as well I don't like powershifts they are to jerky, and not very handy for loader work I like The Synchro shift for loader work. Sure there are a lot better tractors out there with reversers and all kinds of different colors that are better but this is what I grew up on and that's just my two cents worth. I wouldn't buy that 4230 and put a loader on it if it had a loader on it it's whole life. Look at the frame holes on both sides of the tractor make sure they don't show a lot of wear. If you do test drive that 4230 check for blow by, bubbling in the antifreeze when you started up right away, most importantly make sure A,b,c,d ranges all work correctly if the range is a little finicky to keep it in do you ranges all work correctly if the range is a little finicky to keep it in "D" range I would walk away. I really like having my road gear. I had to run my tractor with C range only for about four years fine and dandy if you're working right around the yard but if you got to go anywhere them tractors are pretty slow as it is . I think it would probably be a pretty decent tractor for that price and would hold up well with the loader on it just take your time when you're shifting and use the clutch a lot don't be slapped shifting from 1 to 2 and from 3 to 4 back-and-forth try to run it as smooth as you possibly can and use the clutch to do so you only get so many shifts between one and two and three and four if everything works good on the tractor and you're the only person that runs it and you come to a complete stop before switching ranges it will last you a very long time . I'll bet you dollars to donuts the draft is not going to work correctly and will not adjust so plan on having to use limit chains to keep your disc mower at the right height. Definitely not the most ideal tractor for a FEL but it will work. If you're like anybody else on a budget. You will not regret the comforts of a sound guard cab they were top-of-the-line in their day.
  • MT357 likes this

#18 chevytaHOE5674

chevytaHOE5674

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • 373 posts
  • LocationOntonagon, Mi

Posted 21 March 2020 - 08:51 AM

Agree, decent baler tractor but not terribly desirable loader tractor. Aftermarket powershift parts are readily available unless it gets so bad a cast housing needs replacing. So don’t let it get that bad.


Soft parts like seals and clutches are easy to get. Rebuilt one last year and needed a planetary shaft that was chewed up from a spin and welded bearing race. Not available new, and used was nearly impossible to find. Took a week of calling and searching to find one at an insane price.
  • MT357 likes this

#19 Texasmark

Texasmark

    Hay Master

  • Members
  • 470 posts

Posted 06 April 2020 - 09:10 AM

I am looking for a good used tractor with a loader to use primarily for haying, ie, pull the disc mower, round baler, and to load hay. May use it to pull a disc and cultapacker about once every 5 years or so to replant the alfalfa fields.

Just looking for something reliable and simple to maintain. I am only raising hay on 80 irrigated acres now but I am trying to purchase another 80 to 160.

I have found the following tractors in my price range, but I have never been around any of them, we have always have had Fords. You comments good or bad are appreciated.

This is a list of the tractors I am looking at with the model #, hours, and price. All are clean and have loaders and a cab.

International 1086, 8800 hours, Torque Amplifier transmission, $8400

International 966, 4600 hours, 8 speed Torque Amplifier transmission, $9100

International 856, 8600 hours, 8 speed Torque Amplifier transmission, $6000

Case 1070, 8100 hours, Power Shift transmission, $4400

White 2-105, 6500 hours, Hydraul-Shift, $9200

John Deere 4230, 8400 hours, Partial Power Shift, $8700

John Deere 4020, 11000 hours. 200 hours since overhauled, Full Power Shift transmission, $8700

I had a 4230 diesel, Soundguard cab, partial (2 gear)P Shift.....like when plowing at the end of the row, slap the shifter lever, tranny drops a gear, make the turn slap the lever again, back in the previous higher gear....really neat, 2wd, no loader;  JD 530 (5x6) baler; elevation 800', slope-2% grade, hot summer day, AC going full blast, could feel the baler behind the tractor on the grade as the bale grew to maybe 5% from time to tie.....not a problem, just started feeling the tractor addressing the higher loading.

 

4010 JD, 2wd diesel, JD 152 loader as I recall loader, may have been running a Hesston 5560, 5x6 if I remember the number correctly, don't remember having any problems with the tractor haying....baler sucked.  Front tires were 9.5 x 15 or 16 recalling.  Bucket came with loader and was large, forget dimensions,  had 4 pin hookup to change bucket to spear and a real bear for changing alone.  Remembering bad impressions:  Tires were too small for the loader on soft ground.

 

4020 JD, 2 wd propane, Koyker loader, forget bucket size, must have also been the Hesston baler, don't remember anything that stuck in my mind so apparently it worked ok, other than propane as a tractor fuel was NOT the way to go!!!!!!!!!



#20 VA Haymaker

VA Haymaker

    Hay Master

  • Members
  • 1429 posts
  • LocationCentral Western VA

Posted 06 April 2020 - 12:04 PM

I am looking for a good used tractor with a loader to use primarily for haying, ie, pull the disc mower, round baler, and to load hay. May use it to pull a disc and cultapacker about once every 5 years or so to replant the alfalfa fields.

Just looking for something reliable and simple to maintain. I am only raising hay on 80 irrigated acres now but I am trying to purchase another 80 to 160.

I have found the following tractors in my price range, but I have never been around any of them, we have always have had Fords. You comments good or bad are appreciated.

This is a list of the tractors I am looking at with the model #, hours, and price. All are clean and have loaders and a cab.

International 1086, 8800 hours, Torque Amplifier transmission, $8400

International 966, 4600 hours, 8 speed Torque Amplifier transmission, $9100

International 856, 8600 hours, 8 speed Torque Amplifier transmission, $6000

Case 1070, 8100 hours, Power Shift transmission, $4400

White 2-105, 6500 hours, Hydraul-Shift, $9200

John Deere 4230, 8400 hours, Partial Power Shift, $8700

John Deere 4020, 11000 hours. 200 hours since overhauled, Full Power Shift transmission, $8700

 

The 856 was IMHO one of IH's finest tractors, however, an engine rebuild is expensive.

 

The 1086 is a very good tractor, I'm guessing the hours are correct.  The levers in the cab and the whole cab layout is either loved or hated.  They are very much a tractor you can rebuild and maintain long term IMHO.

 

If the 966 were open station, it would be a good tractor.  I don't think their cab was very good and certainly noisy.  I'd be concerned about the hours, 4,600 or 14,600.

 

I know nothing about the Case tractor.

 

For what you're doing, I don't think I'd want a 4020 with loader.

 

The 4230 is a good tractor IMHO.  I believe it has a wet clutch which would be nice doing loader work.  Perhaps Tx Jim can chime-in and a question is - is the front end stronger than the 4020 which it replaced?

 

IMHO the White 2-105 is one of the best tractors of it's time built.  If the hours are original, it would peak my interest more than any of the others you have on the list.  Great engine and bullet proof transmission.

 

I have a Massey Ferguson 1105 and feel it is a very good tractor.  Good cab ergonomics, visibility and lots of room.  I know nothing about them as far as decent loader tractors.  My MF dynos at 117 hp.  The 1135 is more hp and a very good tractor too.  They are IMHO a good bang for the buck and the Perkins 354 engine is thrifty on fuel and good on power.  Multipower (kind of like a TA) is robust.  BTW - the White 2-105 has the Perkins 354 engine too.

 

Make sure the AC is working on any of the tractors you are going to buy.

 

Good luck,

Bill







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: John deere 4020, Case 1070, International 966, International 856, International 1086, John deere 4230, White 2-105, Round baler

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

× Sponsors