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Changing of the Guard


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#121 Gearclash

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 08:48 AM

Did welding the starter roll rods take care of the net wrapping on that roll?

 

Yes it did.  

 

I have yet to see net get into the idlers on the 560 balers.  I would suspect dull knives or low net tension.

 

I run my balers with less than normal net tension and also with the longest net tail possible.  Otherwise there is a tendency for the net to not start under certain conditions.  In their infinite wisdom, NH chose not to put a little shield there to keep the net out of the chains like the older balers.  Net knives were sharp at the start of this season.  Seems they will need to be sharpened about every 5000 bales.

 

Counter roller bearings I have seen some lock up.  What I have seen is the extra net put on the bale is not form the counter roller not turning and thus not counting, but the locked bearing adds additional drag to the net roll and the duckbill motor will stall.

 

The duck bill didn’t stall in this case.  No warnings no nothing.  Operators really need to be alert for over wrapping on these balers, it happens quite easily and often without an alarm.  On thing I really dislike about these balers.  In 35,000 bales with the BR I had exactly one “gift wrapped” bale.  With the 560s it happens a couple times a  season.

 

The small smooth roll bearing problem, I have not seen.  I did not think the net made much contact with that roll, but I have not sat down and actually watched what purpose it serves.

 

I will get you pictures.  The design is laughably frail.

 

The declutch was probably worn by the time you disconnected the linkage, but the one piece sprocket will solve that issue.

 

The declutch drive that failed was the second set of parts on each baler.  They were installed new and locked with a steel pipe on the end of the belt drive roll from day one.  The dealer that did this did not have the one piece sprocket on hand at the time I needed the original declutch drive replaced, so we reinstalled the two piece drive figuring if it was locked it wouldn’t wear.  It still fails, just differently.

 

1000 rpm cv drive lines wear out twice  as fast as 540 cv drive lines and you are probably right the end of their life is near.

 

Given my druthers I’d run 540 as I have seen the same thing.  At least the heavier 560 1000 pto lasts a little longer than the BR 1000 pto.  

 

The rubber mounted pickup times seem to go on forever without a failure.  In your less than optimal conditions, I was wondering how they were holding up.

 

It seems like 10,000 bales is considered a respectable life around here.  The first two seasons I ran these balers did no favors to the pickup tines whatsoever.  First fall there were a lot of frozen ruts that the tines hit a lot, then the next fall the stalks were damp and the stumps tough which both tax the tines much more.  I wish NH would take a look at Vermeer’s tine and build something like it.  I looked into getting someone to make a custom tine for the NH balers that was designed along the lines of Vermeer but the upfront tooling cost is substantial, more than I cared to swallow.


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#122 mike10

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 01:37 PM

Thanks for the info.  I took a look at a 560 I have in the shop with 14000 bales on it to see when the small roll comes into play.  The bearings on the roll in this baler are ok, but I can see in your conditions the small bearings may be more likely to fail because of the dirt.

 

How is the rough surface of the belts holding up.  The baler I have here has laced belts and there appears to very little if any wear to the rough surface.

 

With the bottom of the duckbill several inches below the side opening where the chains are located you must have a very long tail for the net to reach the chains.  I have also moved some duckbill stops for a longer tail, but have not seen the net in the chains and idlers.  It appears it would not be too hard to add a cover to close off that opening.



#123 Gearclash

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 02:19 PM

Thanks for the info.  I took a look at a 560 I have in the shop with 14000 bales on it to see when the small roll comes into play.  The bearings on the roll in this baler are ok, but I can see in your conditions the small bearings may be more likely to fail because of the dirt.

 

The bearings themselves don’t go out.  What happens is the outer race of the bearing starts to wobble in the end of the tube.  Then the funky little plastic self aligning thing that holds the tiny little shaft that goes in the bearing gets mangled.  To me it looks like the solution is to double up the little bearing.  Incidentally, I stopped to look at a used NH 560 on a local dealer lot.  It had the same problem.

 

I think the first smooth roll catches the load mostly during duckbill insertion.  Then the net makes a pretty sharp turn over it.  The rest of the time, if I recall right, the first (stationary) spreader roll catches most of the load.  For what it is worth, I have my insertion delay set as long as possible to aid with net starting so that may load up that smooth roll more than normal.

 

How is the rough surface of the belts holding up.  The baler I have here has laced belts and there appears to very little if any wear to the rough surface.

 

Very well.  I am very pleased with belt life on these balers.  The texture hardly shows any wear.   Also the tailgate belt guides hardly wear at all.  The only belt wear I see are the outside edges of the outside belts.  I’m thinking the wear plates on the sledge frame are overdue for replacement.  

 

With the bottom of the duckbill several inches below the side opening where the chains are located you must have a very long tail for the net to reach the chains.  I have also moved some duckbill stops for a longer tail, but have not seen the net in the chains and idlers.  It appears it would not be too hard to add a cover to close off that opening.

 

I can’t prove that the net in the idler bearings is coming directly from the net in the duckbill.  One thing that bugs me about these balers is how often I see the edge few strands of the net that should get pulled over the edge of the bale, either during or after application to the bale, get shredded and end up all over.  Doesn’t happen all the time, but too often.  I kinda wonder if it is a result of the sledge frame wear plates being too worn.  



#124 Gearclash

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 02:27 PM

One other odd problem that appeared this fall.  Strictly a crop condition/operator thing.  On one of the first fields we did, we ran into problems where the net would not start wrapping.  Everything seemed normal with wrap system.  Turned out that there was so much fine stalk material falling out the front of the sledge roll area that there was trash stacked up from the top of the wind guard on up behind the trash baffle and in front of the sledge rolls into the area the duckbill has to pass through.  The solution was to push the balers as hard as they would take the crop in and not plug the pick up.  Never had that problem on another field. 



#125 mike10

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 05:46 PM

Those sledge frame wear plates can slice the net on the ends.  I had to remove the wear plate one side on a baler to correct the problem.  The wear plates were not protruding and had no sharp edges, but removing the wear plate took care of the problem.  The down side is you need to watch for sledge frame wear like on the BR balers.  What I observed is the net would be over the edge on the first revolution but on the second revolution the net started coming apart. 

 

If you are slicing the net on the ends of the bale, that may be where your net in the idlers is coming from. The loose net gets everywhere.and on the ends of the rolls.



#126 Gearclash

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Posted 19 November 2020 - 08:53 AM

Typical bale with one edge of the net shredded.

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#127 mike10

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 08:23 AM

Look familiar.  Removing the wear plate on that side took care of the problem.  I have not looked into what exactly on the wear plate is catching the net except I could not see any spot where the net could catch.  The other area I thought might be the cause is the anti wrap brackets welded over the floor roll.  In fact that was where I was planning to start until I received information from NH that they had heard from another dealer the wear plate was the cause.

 

It reminds me of when a customer asked why he had the problem and no one else since they were the same baler.  I told him same is not the same as identical.  We have three children,  they were made using the same procedure with the same equipment, but they turned out similar, but different.

 

 

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#128 Gearclash

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 08:47 AM

I am wondering of worn wear plates causes it as I don’t recall seeing this irritation until more recently.  When the balers were new I don’t think they shredded the edge.  It doesn’t always happen now either.  

 

Thank you much for your input!!






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