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New Holland self propelled baler


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#41 Three44s

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:49 AM

Roger,

I guess that I was more lucky than a “fixed male dog” .... five of my SP balers came from less than three miles away and this last one was the “long distance” unit, it was about 12 miles down the same road ... straight shot!

We drove two of the first five home, car dollied the remain three of the first five and hauled the latest prize on a goose neck.

What concentrated so many SP balers in my neck of the sagebrush was the fact that a fellow I euphemistically call the guru who custom baled for many years with these machines in the course of his work demonstrated to his many customers the virtues of these machines. Some of these farmers wanted their own afterwards. In my case I got behind in our baling and I rented one of his wire 1283’s (we were running wire back then in our PTO baler then as well), but I had some issues with it back then. Today that machine sits in pergetory on our ranch, still a wire baler and we call it “Orrivile”.

The guru has ran, bought, sold and traded iron including these machines all these decades.

For his closest friends he would also find other machines and even help retrieve them .... an enterprising fellow can make a lot of tracks over fifty plus years.

As the guru winds down his life’s work (his knees and sense of balance are not the greatest) he needed to finish clearing out the property he and his wife sold where they have lived for many years. He still is operating at a reduced level.

I chose to pass on his diesel converted 1425, not because he was priced too high, by any standard he was quite reasonable but rather cattle prices were too low and we thought that we had whipped our pin shearing/needle baling up problem with our running 1283. But our problem was not solved and I decided to acquire it but a fellow with just twenty acres of grass hay stepped up and bought it, go figure.

But the new owner turned down the “parts machine” that was included! The guru gave it to me along with all the rest of his many saved spare parts!

Three44s
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#42 bool

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 03:40 PM

SP machines can capture a fellow's imagination all right, so I can see someone with 20 acres of hay buying one.

 

You seem to be becoming something of a guru yourself.

 

A this point, I doubt I will ever have one myself. My IH 440 is enough for the few small square bales I make these days. Still, it's possible one might follow me home one day.

 

Roger



#43 Three44s

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:47 PM

Roger,

Well a grower with 20 acres would benefit from the improved maneuverability of a SP baler but the additional production would not be fully utilized on so few acres in my opinion.

Thank you for the kind endorsement but I am but a student of these machines.

As far as one following you home .... one just never knows the future! LOL!

Best regards

Three44s

#44 bool

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 06:26 AM

Yes, of course it would not be fully utilised on 20 acres. But it could still capture someone's imagination enough to lead them to buy it.

 

I remember a 1281 coming onto a small farm my parents owned when I was a youngster. We had been messing around for hours with a stationary hay press, getting nowhere. It was before we had our own pickup baler. A local custom operator was working next door with his 1281. My father walked over and spoke to him. He turned up once he had finished the neighbour's paddock and pressed up 151 bales for us in 20 minutes.

 

Roger


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#45 Three44s

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:46 AM

My first recollection (also as a youngster) of SP balers was seeing the Guru out custom baling with his wire 1280 on a neighbor’s place. Did not look too appealing to me from an operators perspective without a cab.

But as I grew up and was more involved and spent hours out baling with old gear tractors .... wishing for “one more gear” and learning about variable speed drive from running combines and the fact that SP balers also were so equipped and that the manufacturers had begun fitting cabs on them, my perspective changed. Periodically I would bug my father about SP balers and I was always met with much growling and dismissal ... but not stop complaining about wanting more hay baled in the short dew window our farm offers us!

I got behind on baling like what happens when you are haying and Mother Nature throws one of her wonderful curve balls at you so we called the guru. He was about as busy as a one legged man in a tail kicking contest but he was short an operator but long one wire 1283 hay baler. He offered to rent it to me! We were still running wire so it was no great shakes that his machine was also a wire machine. Or so I thought!

It turns out that Davis Walker had just gotten the bright idea that they would manufacture their baling wire differently and brag it up as “high tensile strength” right about then!

Our baler seemed to handle it fine but the guru’s 1283 DID NOT .... for sour owl pucky! In making their wire “stronger” they made it more brittle and in a very short time I had one blasted mess. The whole thing just soured me on SP balers and that was unfortunate because it had nothing to do with the machine. Of course you know what they say, “perceptions are everything”.

Many more years passed and we transitioned to power shift tractors pulling twine pto balers but I was still are finding us needing a “different gear”. A neighbor had three NH SP balers sidelined after buying a new MF 1841 baler and I approached him about selling one of them to me if he ever got rid of them, which he aggreed to do.

Next spring he drove in and offered all three for a hard to refuse price and the rest is history.

My father is still with us and when I broke news that I had acquired (by then) five NH SP balers and the price .... I was braced for things getting thrown at me but instead he had a big grin on his face! His memory has slipped but when he was made aware that they had variable speed drives he was surprised and thought that would be useful .... do tell!

It’s kind of bitter sweet after all these years to see him “come around” yet he does not even remember his previous resistance.

Three44s
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#46 nhbaler282

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:47 PM

Three 44's I enjoyed your story there never was any selfpropelled equipment in this part of the world,it has always been pull type or horse drawn,I cant wait until summer so I can run this 912 speedrower cutting hay people wont know what it is they are starting to come around with the selfpropelled baler thing.LOL I got a question for you about this cab pressurizing system is this as good as a AC or is it just going to blow hot air?  This baler does have a ac unit on top of the cab but I havent been up there to investigate it yet,it has the factory pressurizing on it but I dont see any kind of air compressor on it,working on other things on it now because the weather is cold but I need to check it out because it gets very hot here with the humidity you cant stay in a cab without ac



#47 Three44s

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:02 PM

The cab pressurizer is just outside air temp unless it is “backed up” by something else that lowers the incoming air temperature.

In my part of the country, some used evaporative coolers on these balers but generally our relative humidity is low ... scary low often. I believe an evaporative cooler in your area would be worthless so it is not worth dwelling them for this discussion.

That leaves refrigerative cooling.

Leaving cooling aside for a moment, the cab pressurized you likely have if it is the same as mine is inadequate as it comes from the factory given the age of the door seals, the likely less than stellar fit of the door andwindow that opens and the advances in cab design and our collective expectation from operating more modern equipment with cabs.

The most obvious flaw in the cab pressurization system is the location of the outside air intake and the nature of it. The screen often plugs up requiring frequent cleaning. Second under optimum conditions the fan does not move enough air so any reduction due to a blocked screen and you have a rapidly deteriorating condition.

The machine I call Orriville has a good modification there. Someone took a piece of thin metal and blocked the outside cab air screen. In it’s place a separate air pipe with a air pre-cleaner was installed of the same size and type used to pre-clean and supply air to the engine. The tube is long enough to pull much cleaner air than the factory screen.

My plan is to go a step farther than this however. My plan is to add a filter outside the cab so that the filter inside the cab becomes a secondary or final filter. I also want to add a booster fan outside the cab to assist the cab pressurized that is inside.

My experience with refrigerative air conditioning on these machines is that the factory installations had the evaporator inside the cab on the post side of the pressurized side of the fan. How your 1283 is put together is the question since it has an after market unit. Does the AC air pass through the pressurizer or is the airflow routed directly into the cab?

You mentioned you have not seen a compressor yet. The factory location is down under the cab with a belt driven off the live shaft that powers the baler. There is a short drive shaft just forward of the multigroove pulley with splines on it. The AC pulley is a single groove and fairly large in diameter.

Perhaps the compressor is driven electrically which would either limit the effectiveness of it or create quite a load for the alternator and it might be up on the roof. But also you might be looking at an evaporative unit?

Best regards

Three44s

#48 nhbaler282

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:19 AM

  Thanks Three44s it doesnt have the pulley under the cab for a compressor I need to climb up there and see what kind of ac unit this is on top of the cab. the baler was probably originally from up north somewhere that didnt really need a ac,I am going to look today and let you know. I am just not familiar with a cab pressurizer system here all equipment has ac or back in the old days just rolled the windows down and drove 55 mph what we called the 55 air conditioner



#49 Three44s

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:51 PM

If hoses lead to and from roof top unit they would give a clue where the compressor had been but if that were the case, you would have your answer already.

Best regards

Three44s

#50 nhbaler282

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:59 PM

Well i checked it out today and it looks like some kind of unit that u put water in it and these wheels turn in the water and the blower blows air thru it and the air is supposed to be cool that what it looks like to me never seen nothing like it. May just take it off and try to rig up a air codition from a old pickup

#51 Ray 54

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:28 PM

My first swather had swamp cooler for the cab and it as not be enough cool on a warm day. With your humidity it will not cool. I have not kept up with your posts nhbaler282,but if your going to bale more than hour or 2 a day don't cheap out on air conditioning.   



#52 Three44s

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:00 AM

Ray 54,

+10

Yes, unfortunately nhbaler282 ...... you have an evaporative cooler and for your climate it is not even in the cards. Only refrigeration equipment will suffice in your circumstances.

The air shrouding and screening on all the NH SP balers short of finding the tin works off a 1426 is not designed for the condenser to be located in front of the radiator like most vehicles and other equipment. For 1283 balers etc. New Holland situated the condenser on top of the engine cover (hood) upright on it’s edge and cooled it with an electric fan.

The compressor ran off what I call the live shaft from under the cab.

The evaporator and by extension the expansion valve were installed inside the cab in an extension of the duct work just to the right of the cab pressurizer housing the fan and cab air filter.

The receiver drier must be in the circuit before the expansion valve.

A neighbor has a NH 903 or 912 or there abouts that has AC stuff on it that looks like the spitting image of the major components for these balers (even the condenser unit including the electric fan). He wants to sell the picked over machine but when the guru’s situation came up we had to catch the big fish first lol!

What I suggest whether the components come from a car, truck or other piece of equipment that one takes the condenser and evaporator to a radiator shop experienced in this work and get them tested unless they came from a working sealed and charged system. Unless the hoses are late model ie. made for R134a, I would replace them.

With respect to a condenser built narrow long and/or wide, I would figure on a cluster of smaller electric fans or a large one that covers as much surface area as you can muster. It is said that the thermal efficiency of R134a is not as good as good ‘ole R12 was. It’s one thing in a car going down a road with some speed and quite another in a piece of equipment working dirty and slow to get rid of all that heat build up.

Something else to consider is making sure you end up with low and high pressure safety switches.

Best regards

Three44s

#53 nhbaler282

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:57 AM

Thanks both of you for the advice i got a 912 that i am working on and it has the ac unit on it according to the parts book it is the same except for some of the sheet metal does that man still want to sell some parts off the 912

#54 Three44s

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:22 AM

He wants to sell the whole thing such as it is but I am not sure which model that it is and I still have my eye on the AC and the cab .... for my wild hairs you know .... lol!

The Diesel engine and the hydrosat parts were stolen off it as it sat for a long time in somebodies pasture before the current owner acquired it for the header. Now he just wants the tires and wheels.

After my post last night I binged for AC condensers and found online sources for new ones at prices that surprised me how reasonable they were. If I were to build an AC system up from the boot straps so to speak I think I would not mess around with a used one very much as I previously suggested .... by the time you bring a radiator shop into the mix you are even or in the hole compared to new. Just pick a condenser for something that was built in large numbers as to the vehicle and make your own housing and position the fans to get as much air through it.

You mentioned the tin being different on your 912 but the parts swather I looked at had an evaporator housing and guts that are a twin to the way the baler units were set up.

As to the condenser out on the hood I can’t say but as long as it has the capacity, who cares? ... and the cabs are near twins so how could be off by much?

The guru and I were talking about AC’s the other day and he mentioned something that I had never thought about much ..... cab size. I have considered the area of glass and that goes hand in hand I suppose. There are tinting products that could help, of course the ability to bale at night would need to be considered. A sun shade attached to the cab might be useful. Anyway the guru felt that as NH made successive swather models that their cabs got larger to the point that the AC units were getting overworked but that Hesston did not follow that path.

I look at the 6550 I snagged off of him and I don’t see that much difference but I do think that keeping much of the direct sun off the glass within reason could and should go a long way to reducing the AC’s work load.

By the way if you tint your baler up to much and some night you end up on my door step I will let you finnish in my field, give you a good breakfast, a good place for a nap and a free plane ride or bus fare back home and a good second home for your 1283! LOL!!

Charitable aren’t I?

Best regards

Three44s

#55 nhbaler282

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:04 PM

I might just have to come up there and show yall how to bale the proper way like we do here in east texas,LOL! We cant bale at night here just too much humidity you can tell it when the sun goes down,I used to when I round baled and them bales would get heavy at night you could feel it when they came out of the baler mostly done it just to finish up a field or trying to beat the rain coming in. 

 I guess I'm going to forget about the air conditioner for right now and finish up the rest of the baler and the speedrower,now it does have the complete ac unit and I know I can get it going and it gives me some ideas on how to rig up one on the baler like you said get some of the parts from the automotive stores cheaper,I got a 84 ford pickup that has air in it but I never use it it has a freon leak somewhere dont use it much except to haul tools and parts so I will look at it and see what I can use off of it

 Checked the varidrive out could tell it needed some TLC and found the bearings in the clutch and flywheel shaft were going bad,and noticed the fixed sheave on that side was about a quarter inch from the snap ring so bingo there is where I can take up somr slack and push those sheaves together a little but I do remember NH says .300 gap between them but if they are worn the top will be out and the shimming that the guru was talking about will help correct that so hopefully shimming both sides will give me some more on the adjusting rod to keep the belt adjusted properly

  I was thinking if we can find some kind of shaft that uses that same spline take the female end and bore out the old splines in the old hub and turn down the new shaft and press it into the sheave that was bored,of course all this done at a machine shop I am no machinest but the hard part maybe finding a shaft with those splines,there is a possibility that some of the driveshafts on a pickup might have that spline I am going to shake the bushes and see what I can find out

  Now it is going to have to warm up up there before I can come up there and bale this baler told me it has had all that cold weather it can stand and likes it down here.LOL



#56 Three44s

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:35 PM

Hey even as old as we are here, a fellow is never going be too old to learn!! LOL!! You don’t have to worry about the cold much because we can’t put up hay until later in May but you can need a cab heater in Sept/October on the last cutting!!

I still have to ask the guru but as far as I know you only shim the outside shieve on the left. I will also quiz him on adjusting the traditional way vs. shining. My sense is that you adjust first and use the shims secondary as a quick way to end slippage and then adjust when you have more time. But I have to check on that.

I will get you the name of a shop in Seattle WA that took a splined shaft from a fruit processing company that it was costing them 11k to replace and fixed it for 1k. I don’t know about the internal splines but I would lay odds they can at least steer a person to a possible solution.

You mentioned about bearings in the bell housing I believe. We had those go out in summer of ‘16. An outer race spun and we changed that housing (bought one from the guru). I did not throw the damaged housing away because if we can figure out how to properly indicate it we might be able to build it back and line bore it or bore it and sleeve it. But to reduce a weak point we installed the new bearings with seals on one side only and facing outside on one and towards the clutch and throw out bearing on the inside. Then we bored and tapped for grease fittings and a plug on the opposite side from where the grease fitting went. The plan is to push new grease through with the plug removed to reduce back pressure on the seals and reinstalled the plug afterwards.

Three44s

#57 nhbaler282

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:05 PM

  That is a good idea about the grease fitting I know New Holland says to fill the housing with grease before assembly,if we keep going like this we might get a job at New Holland as engineers.



#58 Three44s

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:11 PM

Hmmmmm, they will never listen to us about these SP balers and anyone keeping their old stuff going through thick and thin ..... well they are not going to like us for that. Maybe those NH bean counters would be inclined on booking us on a “snipe hunt” at night in gator territory? LOL!

If you do fit a fitting there however, be sure to also install a bleed port with a removable plug so you reduce the chance of blowing a seal. A fitting that would release any back pressure but not let appreciable amounts of dust back in that worked without having to remove or manipulate it would be the best sort of plug.

Best regards

Three44s

#59 clowers

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:15 AM

282 I would like to see your baler operate here in east texas this next summer.  Good luck on your tune up as I have enjoyed yours and three44's dialogue on SP balers.

 

Scott


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#60 Three44s

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:57 AM

Thank you Scott!

Sometimes .... make that often ....... I was imagining droves of members running “for the exits” every time one of these threads start ramping up about these SP balers LOL!

nh282baler and I will have to get some pics and videos going next season of our rusty ‘ole treasures so more members can see for themselves why we are going the extra mile to keep these old hay making soldiers going.

Best regards

Mark
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