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Suggestions on a 4x5 round baler


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#1 tnwalkingred

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 12:16 PM

I'm looking to buy a 4x5 round baler and wanted a few suggestions as to what kind you guys would recommend. I'm gonna buy something used so older models will be what I'm looking at. I have a JD 5210 tractor. Thanks for any help you guys can give me.

Kyle

#2 LaneFarms

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 07:51 PM

I would look into Vermeers line of Rebel balers. They are designed with lower HP requirements.

#3 tbconnors

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 09:17 PM

I have a 5410 Rebel and used it for 2 years now. Really makes good bales, but shape of windrow is paramount for square corners.

I got the net wrap and it has never caused me any problems at all.

I plugged it up so bad last year (got into some new crop that had runners that wound around the rollers) and broke a belt and bent up the bars that hold the pickup teeth. Got it fixed and it is going along just fine.

I got it mostly for ease of handling (and price) since I supply a farmer with a small herd and does not want to put out big bales as the spoilage gets high.

I have sold some and the fellow had it weighed and compared it to a 5x6 he had also purchased. Mine only weighed 46 pounds less than the larger bale, so either I bale tight or the other guy baled extremely loose to up the count (he got paid per bale for baling only).

All in all, I have a two Vermeer products in my operation, the baler and the disc mower. Both have been very trouble free.

I'm sure you will be happy with this baler if you go for it.

Vermeer has come out with a new baler last year (Rancher is the model name I think), and it makes 4.5 ft wide I think.

Good luck and let us know what you decided on.

#4 tbconnors

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 09:19 PM

I should have mentioned, the problem I had with the broken belt was entirely my fault, not the baler. I think the crop was not as evenly dried as I thought it was, and while the spot I checked before beginning was dry, I got into some not so dry stuff that caused my plug up and resulting problems. I do not fault the baler for that. In fact I'm impressed that it did not do more damage.

#5 kyfred

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:18 AM

We have a M&W4590 it makes 4X5 rolls that a kid could roll with. You can run with a low hp. tractor. It has the plastic wrap option that is supposed to use net wrap also.It comes standard with twine tie. It is a fixed chamber baler so if you don't fill the chamber up it will make a soft roll. Our rolls are solid square shoulderd rolls. Just very little trouble that happened last year. A couple of small roller chains took care of that. [Baler is 20yrs old] it was due. Krone makes a excelent roller that is fixed chamber also. We have both dealers here where I live. Krone has some newer style roll balers also that I might would try. Look on their Add here on Haytalk site. Never used a belt baler yet like JD and Vermeer but a lot of farmers here have them and like them also. Look and see what equipment dealers are near you so you can get parts or someone to repair the baler That would be a big thing to consider. You don't want anything you can't easly get parts for. Good Luck

Edited by kyfred, 06 January 2011 - 08:20 AM.


#6 tnwalkingred

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 09:43 AM

I found a great deal on a NH 847 baler that looks to be in great shape. Anyone ever used one of these balers? Can you give me a little information about it? I have been in the hay business for a couple of years now but have always paid someone to do our rolls as we do mostly squares. But I decided if I could find one this year worth the money it would be alot less headache. Thanks for all your help guys.

Kyle

#7 mlappin

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 09:56 AM

I've had three New Holland balers over the years and all three were very reliable. Started out with a 846 chain and slat baler, will bale anything but hard on leaves in alfalfa. Second was a 644, ran the most bales thru that one and only had one bearing go out on that one. Was a cam follower on the pickup, changed the other 3 while I was at it. Newest one is a BR740A Silage Special with the x-tra sweep pickup. Really love 80" wide pickup on it as well as the automatic chain oiler.

#8 mlappin

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:03 AM

I'd stay away from the 846 and the 847, I had the 846 and while it was a reliable baler from my experience, they don't make a very dense bale, and like I pointed out before, they are hard on alfalfa leaves. If I made more stalk bales I might seriously consider buying another 846 or even a 847 as they are very aggressive and will roll anything up.

#9 tnwalkingred

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:28 AM

We only bale grass hay (fescue and orchard mostly). I was told that it would bale just about anything and would not clog up if you have a little green hay as do the belt balers. How big of a tractor would I need to run the 847? Thanks.

Kyle

#10 mlappin

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 12:13 PM

I've not had any problems with plugging on the BR740A, I would blow a shearbolt on the 644 if a big enough green slug was feed in. I ran the 644 with a Oliver 1600 diesel, was around 65-68hp. It ran the 846 no with no problem as ground speed was somewhat limited. I found with the spring tension system on the 846, the slower you drove the heavier the bale, jammed it in too fast and you end up with marshmellows for bales.

#11 acarpenter

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:03 PM

Here is a link from a couple of months ago on the NH 846/847 balers...

http://www.haytalk.c...und-baler-3008/

I have been running ours with a JD 2355 & Dad had an IH 664 before that. Never had any issues with power. I would think a 5210 (45 pto HP???) would be able to handle one without a problem. As mentioned below (& in the previous thread), they will bale just about anything, including fence posts, dead animals, sticks, etc. It just won't be very fast & bales aren't that pretty.

#12 tnwalkingred

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 09:07 PM

I also found a 848 for sale today that is more money but in better condition and much closer to home. It has a hydro tie instead of the manual as well. When you guys say the bales aren't that pretty what exactly do you mean? Does it roll a good tight bale?

Kyle

#13 scrapiron

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 10:13 AM

If I remember correctly it is a soft core baler like my M&W 4500. The core is star shaped and soft, the outer layers are rolled just like a belt baler. If you haul a## baling the roll will be soft and low weight,slow down and let it pack, you will have a tight heavy bale. My 4500 can work good with a 40-50hp tractor but can only get a 800lb roll. Put it behind a 120hp tractor and it will make a 1200lb roll, but it will work the tractor hard at the end of every roll. This is in bahia & bermuda grass. I love my M&W it might make an ugly roll of hay but the cows & horses don't care what the roll looks like.

scrapiron

#14 mlappin

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 11:03 AM

Scrapiron is pretty close. It is a soft core but not a fixed chamber baler. Due to the chain and slat system on those models the area that the core forms is much larger than the area in my BR740A so you need a considerable amount of hay in 8xx series balers before compressive force is applied by the chains. Most of the ones I seen as well made odd size bales. My 846 made a 54"x56" or could have been 56"x54", regardless of what might have been the correct size, they overhung a straight truck or flat rack by a considerable amount.

I really think in the long run if your check book allows it it would be best to find a 6 series belt baler. I was very happy with my 644, you might look at something in the slightly older models like a 640 or 650.

Edited by mlappin, 10 January 2011 - 11:05 AM.


#15 u857805

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 07:19 AM

I currently use a New Holland 846 and have had no problems with it. When I bought it, pulled with a Ford 3600, 42HP. Now i use a TN70A, 70HP. This baler will bale any type and condition hay. It has auto tie, when the baler gets full it tells you to stop and the twine goes on and you dump it out. It makes between a 800# and 1000# bale. I would part with it for $2000. Let me know.

#16 cbdave

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 05:35 PM

I have a JD457. Been a great baler. Tighter bales than my previous Vermeer. I like NH or JD hay equipment because of parts and hay product focus. NH does great job with balers but I prefer JD just because baler is more compact smaller unit, net wrapper works awesome and only repair I have had was repalacing the drive chain and sprockets from wear in off season. The Vermeer that I owned was a well built baler and held together fine, just wasnt as automated with as nice user friendly controls as my 457 JD. Depends on how many acres your baling. If your doing small acreage and have time the vermeer would work fine, if your looking to cover more acres the more advanced controls of a NH or JD will help you get it done faster and tighter bales to use less storage space or less loss if stored outside in the elements.
Good luck.

#17 Hay DR

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:50 AM

I have a JD457. Been a great baler. Tighter bales than my previous Vermeer. I like NH or JD hay equipment because of parts and hay product focus. NH does great job with balers but I prefer JD just because baler is more compact smaller unit, net wrapper works awesome and only repair I have had was repalacing the drive chain and sprockets from wear in off season. The Vermeer that I owned was a well built baler and held together fine, just wasnt as automated with as nice user friendly controls as my 457 JD. Depends on how many acres your baling. If your doing small acreage and have time the vermeer would work fine, if your looking to cover more acres the more advanced controls of a NH or JD will help you get it done faster and tighter bales to use less storage space or less loss if stored outside in the elements.
Good luck.

Which Vermeer baler are you comparing your JD457 too?

#18 cbdave

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 01:11 PM

Hay Dr,
It was 10 yrs ago and not certain of the Vermeer Model. It was a 6' diameter and 5' width baler with twine tie although I set limit at 5' diameter. Sold that and bought a Claas Rollant 66 brand new and after one cutting couldn't "bail" my self out of that sinking ship fast enough. Net wrapper design was awful, Claas and dealer were absolutely no help. Required 110hp tractor to make a decent bale. Demo a NH 4x5 for one cutting. And just liked the control and monitor on the JD a little better. So I purchased it and have been very happy with the density of the bales regardless of straight alfalfa, grass and much more flexible on ground speed vs density than the other balers I tried. I have moved to large squares now and will likely sell the baler this spring but must say I have been very pleased with the net wrapper, mechanics and bale quality of the JD 457 constantly over the past 6 yrs.

#19 Hay DR

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 02:47 AM

Hay Dr,
It was 10 yrs ago and not certain of the Vermeer Model. It was a 6' diameter and 5' width baler with twine tie although I set limit at 5' diameter. Sold that and bought a Claas Rollant 66 brand new and after one cutting couldn't "bail" my self out of that sinking ship fast enough. Net wrapper design was awful, Claas and dealer were absolutely no help. Required 110hp tractor to make a decent bale. Demo a NH 4x5 for one cutting. And just liked the control and monitor on the JD a little better. So I purchased it and have been very happy with the density of the bales regardless of straight alfalfa, grass and much more flexible on ground speed vs density than the other balers I tried. I have moved to large squares now and will likely sell the baler this spring but must say I have been very pleased with the net wrapper, mechanics and bale quality of the JD 457 constantly over the past 6 yrs.

It is not really a fair comparison to compare a baler's features that's on a baler 10-20 years old to a current production baler. The Accu-Bale monitor system available on all Vermeer baler is state-of-art. The Accu-Bale monitor will control both twine and net-wrap. Balers | Equipment | Vermeer

The large square baler will demand more HP than any non-chopper style baler. Large square balers are nice but that is a whole different market segment. The Class must have had a chopper head in the baler to demand that amount of HP. A chopper in a round baler will also retard the baler's ability to take hay in a fast manner.

#20 gman1772

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:00 PM

I pull a JD458 (net wrap/megawide pickup) with a JD5203 (56HP) 5-6 MPH with no problems other than eating copius amounts of dirt. Your 5210 is very similar in HP to mine. You can get into a a 458 with no extras for around $21K brand new. Mine was $29617.00 brand new with all the extras. I will tell you that unless I am in real heavy windrows the tractor does not bog at all. The galloping goat goat guys got it right with the "8" series. The bales are supertight. I am already booking customers for 2011 hay that were highly skeptical of buying 4X5 bales because of the size. Now they are singing praises of how the cattle don't ruin as much hay and there was hardly any spoilage due to weathering. That being said here is a little advice from a part time hay farmer. Stay away from spring tension balers. They will not produce a heavy bale especially due to age and wear. Do not exceed the weight of your tractor with the weight of your baler+a fully formed bale. Last but not least learn the limitations of your tractor/baler combination. Balers are like taking a wife, they are love and fun in the beginning and around middle age they get a mind all their own and start being mean, crazy and doing stupid stuff.
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