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Educate me on New Holland stack wagons


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#1 JamesIII

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 01:54 PM

I am toying with the idea of getting a stack wagon. I want to run multiple balers and only have one accumulator. Distance is my biggest concern or how to handle it. Can a stack wagon load onto a trailer of some sort or is a retriever the only method of moving hay stacks 25-30 miles to storage? Are their logistical problems to watch out for other than unloading height? I would probably be looking at a pull type machine. There are not to many of these machines in eastern Iowa, so any help would be appreciated in my research of this venture. James

#2 Josh in WNY

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:52 PM

James,

I started out with a NH 1010 stacker wagon as a test run to see how it would work. It only handled 56 bales max, but did pretty well. I have since upgraded to a 1033 and the 105 bale loads make a big difference. I have just been setting off the stack and having my hay crew pull the bales down and run up the elevator into the barn (don't have a pole barn built yet). Given my inexperience at running the wagon and a few mechanical problems, I was getting about 2 loads (210) an hour with it. I'm sure once it gets dialed in and I get better at running it, I'll be able to go a little faster.

As for loading a truck with a wagon and hauling the hay, I don't think it would work too well. The stacks from a pull type (105 bale size) are 3 bales wide (lengthwise), 5 bales deep on edge and 7 bales tall. That would make a pretty tall stack to keep from tipping over on a truck. A stack retriever would work or another option would be a bale-grab on a loader. You could build the stack of hay at a convienient spot on the field and then load the truck or trailer with the bale-grab.

The other option (that I can think of) is to go with a self-propelled stacker wagon. They can handle up to 160 bales and run down the road at a pretty good speed. Having never run one of the self-propelled units, I don't know for sure what kind of road speeds you can get. The other folks on here will probably be able to help with that.

A couple of useful websites you could check out would be Roeder Implement, Inc and Hands Free Haying | Steffen Systems. Hope I was able to help you. I'm sure the more experienced stacker wagon operators on this site will be able to provide more information for you.

Josh in WNY

#3 hay hauler

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:37 AM

The older wagons sp wagons are ok going down the road. But not very efficient after 10 miles. 30mph is fast enough for my 1049. I would guess the newer ones do better at high speeds. They are kind of helpless in wet ground though, something to consider, also steep hillsides can be a pain. A self-propelled is much faster loading than a pull type.

When we move hay over a distance we make a stack on the field then use our two grapples, one at each site, and start running trailers back and forth. Seems to work out well. A two wide wagon would be better for this though... Depending on what you want to spend, a large squeeze could work, seems like 60k for one though. Two grapples so long as you have the tractors would be around 6 to 8k. Self propelled machines start around 30k, and depending on what pull type you are looking around 10k.

One nice thing about stacking on a field is the ability to clear the field fast if rain is coming, then just tarp it and wait for the rain to quit. You will burn up a lot of time running 20 miles with a bale wagon.

You might read through this thread "sticky balewagon opperating thread?"

#4 Rodney R

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 06:05 PM

If you have to haul 25-30 miles, forget about just a stackwagon. Whenever the wagon leaves the field, the bales will soon add up (that the balers are making) and the efficiency of the wagon goes to nearly zero. A pull type.... I wouldn't even consider one for that length of drive - how long does it take the tractor to drive the haul, then figure the weight of the wagon plus it's load and how that'll affect your speed. Also consider that the things are 10-11 ft wide - 3 bales @ 36 inches, plus about 1ft out each side, gives you 11ft. Sp's are just over 14ft tall, and require 17ft to unload. If you'd have a 1069 picking bales and making stacks, and a retriever truck to move the stack that would be about as cheap as you could go. I know hay hauler runs an older machine, and he will tell you about getting parts for an old one. They make about 150 new SP's per year, so parts are not plentiful, even for new ones. Most pull type machines only make a stack about 7 rows high, Sp's will make their stack 9 high. Figure the sp"s will move along at about 45-50mph. Some may go faster, and some will go slower. The 3 that we've had all went about 45mph easily, but if a guy could get onto decent enough road 50mph and better could be done.

Rodney

#5 hay hauler

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 11:33 PM

I am lucky to get 50 out of it on the road, if it is wide! Normal back roads with trees expect an average of 30. One nice thing about the 1049 and 1048 is it’s a 2 ton truck frame and running gear, so most of the running gear is easy to get parts for. But things like bearings and bushings can be difficult to find! Most of the bale handling part can be rebuilt on your own if you have the background. No computers so that can be good and bad. Easy to work on, more operator fatigue.... Hydro pumps and motors seem to be available. All sheet metal will have to be home made, can not be bought from the store. I think they are like most things. The older they get the harder they are to get parts for. But much cheaper to purchase the machine itself. I think one way or the other you will need to put the hay on a trailer, retriever, to move it down the road. Just got to decide how to get it there.

#6 dbergh

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:25 AM

Stack wagons are a great tool but do have their limitations. They do have a lot of moving parts in the form of linkages and hoses, rams etc and these will fail from time to time. Keep it clean every day and watch for spots that are rubbing between hoses & lines etc.and you will minimize your issues. Air compressors work best for this.
Speed -wise my 1048 loaded is good for about 35 MPH. A little faster empty. They will not unload onto a trailer as far as I know-only ground level. You would have to custom build something that you could set on the ground and then raise up and that would present a height issue going down the road unless you went with some pretty short stacks.
A block stacker and squeeze is another alternative but lots of $$$$.
25 to 30 mile runs will be a problem with just about anything. A retriever is probably your best bet for moving stacks quickly over this distance and with a minimum of labor - a great tool and will add a lot of capability to your operation.
If you are going to stack with a NH make sure your bales are solid and uniform density-it will eat soft, lose bales and your stacks will not have much integrity and will tend to lean and topple- straight grass bales can be an issue in this regard. With hay baled properly you will love stacking with these machines-fast and efficient with very few problems most of the time.

#7 Rodney R

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 05:24 PM

The other thing you wanna consider - how firm are the bales? If they are not firm, and they are instead short and loose, the retriever will not work either. The stackwagon will be nothing but trouble, and over half of the stacks will fall over. What about the storage facility? No sense in having a stackwagon if you can't unload inside. With a retriever, you need about 18 inches between each stack, for the side forks/hooks to go in.

Rodney

#8 Blue Duck

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 12:20 AM

Rodney, I saw in the http://www.haytalk.c...highlight=panel thread the pallets that you made for your stackwagon and started thinking about building a bed for a truck just like a stackwagons rear table but with a clamp at the top like a retriever. Then backing the forks on the truck bed under the pallet and pick up the stack.

If it would work it would help me in several ways. I need to get the bales up off the ground and I wouldn't have to leave as much room between stacks as a regular retriever. It would be easier to back into my hay barn then my PT stackwagon. I could get the bales off the field faster and other then being a little wide I could deliver to nearby customers with it.

Do you think it would work?

#9 Rodney R

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 05:38 PM

I am going to figure out how to add some pic's in the photo's section. I am pretty sure that we have been using what you are envisioning. I will try to get them on here tonight (11/8), just reply back if that's what you're talking about.

Rodney

#10 Rodney R

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 07:04 PM

The pics are up, and the one thing I forgot to mention is that the pallets and the PT stackwagon might not work - how does the rolling rack come forward? Will the addition of weight factor into it at all? We're running an SP, so it has a hydraulic rolling rack, and that has not been a problem.

Rodney

#11 Blue Duck

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 08:37 PM

I am pretty sure that we have been using what you are envisioning. Rodney


That is exactly what I was thinking about. Yours looks really good and I like how you found a use for the old wagon LOL. My PT has a spring loaded rolling rack but after I set a load down it stays back all the way until I let the table all the way down and sometimes I have to get out and help it along to get it to go all the way forward. So with the pallet I am sure I would have to help it every time but it would be a small price to pay for the benifits (I Think)

#12 Rodney R

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 05:55 PM

What needs to be done - or at least how I've always done it - I put the rolling rack up about 1-2ft, slide the pallet on, and then as the load rack is coming back down I put the rolling rack in place. If the 2x4's on the pallets stick down a little too far, then they get stuck in the hole where the push-off feet come through. I've only had that happen maybe 10 times in the last 10 years. Maybe you could rig an extra spring on the load rack? I'd make a few pallets and see how it works before I'd jump in with both feet. I'll help all I can, but just know this is not a perfect system, but smaller stacks do work better, so 7 would work better than 8 or 9.

You need to find a truck with the right wheelbase (this one is 137 CA) and a hydraulic system on it is real nice - this was an ole DOT truck, so it had a big hyd tank, a pump and valve already, and even better - it was cheap. Many folks told me that the front end of a retriever truck will get light when the load is lifted/set down - some guys say the front axle comes several feet off the ground! This has a snowplow hitch that adds a lot of weight up front, so I've never had any trouble. Could also be used for big bales or bundles, but it has to be on pallets! What kind of floor do you plan on setting the stacks? I hope it's firm. If the 2x4's sink into the ground/chaff the stack will want to follow you. Same thing if you set them down in the field, and the forks on the truck dig into the ground. This thing was built 100% on the farm, and to my knowledge is the only one like it - are you a good welder? Things need to be welded good, and the metal needs to be heavy, especially the main body and clamp system.

Rodney

#13 JamesIII

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 07:25 PM

Thanks for the input. After much research I have decided to either add another accumulator or trade for an accumulator that will be able to handle bales already on the ground. Rodney, I like your solution to the problem, very innovative. JamesIII

#14 Blue Duck

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 07:35 PM

I used a couple pallets this summer to get the hay up off the ground and they seemed to work fine on my barn floor (packed gravel). I loaded the pallets from the front since the rolling rack was all the way forward and it was not much fun!

I have a firetruck that I was thinking about using that would be about right. I would have to add a hyd. system in place of the water pump. With the lights and siren I could get the hay moved really quick LOL

I am a machinist/welder for a living so it shouldn't be a problem to get it to stick together.

Are your forks hinged like a stack wagon or are they rigid?

Thanks

#15 Rodney R

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 07:28 PM

They are hinged like the stack wagon, have the taper both ways, and a big bolt for the hinge. One of the things that I was thinking of trying (this whole thing is a trial and error process) was to make the forks hinge to just under 90 degrees - to have a slight angle towards the body. When the truck is on pavement, and the body is dumped, there is about an inch and a half, maybe 2 inches between the bottom of the forks, and the surface of the ground. The problem that we always have is that the stack looks like it's going to fall apart, but it doesn't. Unless you crush the crap out of it with the clamp. I think that if the back of the stack would begin to lift sooner it would work much better. I just have never had an opportunity to try it out. I put 2 more pics on that show the forks.

Rodney

Edited by Rodney R, 10 November 2010 - 08:01 PM.

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#16 Blue Duck

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 09:07 PM

Rodney, thanks for sharing how you built yours. If I have enough time this winter after I finish last winters project I think I will give it a try.

#17 Rodney R

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:01 PM

Any more questions, just give me a holler.

Rodney




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