20 replies to this topic

[norm]

hi,
been looking for a real farmer for advice for some time now
hope someone can help
i'm looking to bail hay for my personal use on about 20 acres
have a 8n tractor that needs a little work
my question, will this tractor be big enough to do the job and if so what other equipment should i be looking for if not where to go from here
thanks
norm

[nosliw]

mowing and raking, yes. provided you're not goign to use a disc mower. a sickle type works well on just about any size ag tractor in my opinion.

highly unlikely you'll be able to produce roll bales with a tractor that size. I'm unexperienced myself in anything other than 5x6 round bales which take my 80hp tractor to run.

our old square baler makes my 50hp work a little.

wait for someone else to chime in on the baler, but i think the 8n isn't going to be able to do much.

[Ruckus]

Hello,

It would be helpful to know the region, terrain, and field density. You will need a lot more power to bale 7' hay than 2'.

I have used a Ford NAA which is basically an 8n with a slightly larger motor and 4-speed.
The main limitation of the old Ford tractors is gearing, not hp. You cannot hardly go slow enough to properly cut and bale. This results in lugging the motor where it has less power and is more prone to overheating. I will never buy a tractor with that high of gearing again.

In very heavy hay going up the slightest hill I had BARELY enough power for a NH489 - I think about a 9ft cut. So buy the smallest and lightest haybine you can get. Sickle mowers take no power but clog up constantly and take forever to cut.

Raking takes no power and many around here that run giant tractors still use an 8n for raking.

The NH 269 baler will be no problem for that tractor. However, if the hay is heavy you will get very good at pushing in the clutch, snicking it into neutral, and letting out the clutch again to eat up a clot of hay. This is because the 8n does not have a "live" pto which means when you push in the clutch the pto stops. A live pto allows you to push in the clutch and stop the tractor but the pto keeps going eating up the hay.

To make an 8n really work well you need one of the auxiliary crawler gears that was an option. This will enable you to go slow enough to avoid the whole neutral thing and give you plenty of power in heavy hay or hilly terrain. My IH has a 4-speed with a low-range and I still can barely go slow enough in heavy hay (6'+ brome).

Ultimately, I think you will end up buying a slightly more modern tractor with a live pto such as an IH424,464 or a later Ford. The smaller 4-cylinder IH tractors are sized like an 8n but are WAY burlier (being a design from the 60' instead of the 30's). Of course the Cub is junk. Around here they practically give the IH stuff away. I paid $1200 for a 73 gasser with low hrs. The downside is the nearest IH dealer is a ways away. So there is a trade-off to everything.

Good luck!

If you get in a bind, consider having a neighbor do the hay for a percentage of the crop. He will do it right since he will be using it, it will cost you no $$, and there is a certain satisfaction to sipping tea in the shade while he does endless circles around the field in the hot sun!

[norm]

thanks so much, to answer your question : the land is flat, its in southwest ohio just outside of Cincinnati
looking to do 2 or 3 cuts a year so would imagine that it should not be more then 2or3 feet but quite thick as for the neighbor great idea but looking forward to getting my hands dirty
again thank you

[davang]

You WILL get your hands dirty! I just started out myself. Alot of things will "break" on you at first. I thought I broke my baler, it was just clogged. There's a lot of tricks these experienced guys know, keep reading. I check here alot. I have a 2N I'm selling, it will pull that rake good, but you'll have to be a real good operator to learn that clutching trick. I'm selling it 'cause the wife was gonna use it too but it's too "old timey" for her. I'm also looking at a sickle mower. There's a video on YouTube of a guy mowing with one. Looks so easy and fast but the guys on here say they're slow and clog up. I have a used JD 1460 MoCO that cuts great but sucks up the diesel bad. It requires a big tractor which luckily that's my best piece right now. Everything else is used and abused. It is very rewarding though to make your own hay. Our horses loved our first cut which was nothing more than a Hail Mary pass. No fert just shredding the weeds for control and waiting for rain. You'll learn to really understand the old saying: "Make hay while the sun shines." You can do it! Good luck to you.

Jeff

[Hobby Farmer KS]

I was a newbe about 3 yeas ago. I do about 15 acres on flat KS ground. I have a ford workmaster 641. It has about 15 to 20% more HP than an 8n. I bale Brome with and Oliver 720 square baler. I don't know if an 8n could run it (I think so). I have problems when I do not get the Brome dry enough, but the issue is shear bolts not the HP of the tractor. THe sickle cuts great when its working. I spend about half my time repairing equipment, but I cut my own hay, and I feed it to the horses, cows and Dairy goats. THere have been some guys around here who have succesfully baled with an 8n. Good Luck

[TessiersFarm]

I do about 10 acres of hay, my 2 main tractors are an NAA and a Farmall H, HP is not a problem but I agree with the high gearing on the ford, thats why I like the farmall. If you rake lighter windrows you can bale at a faster ground speed, that would be a must with the ford. I cut with a 7' JD #5 sickle and it does a real good job for what I need. If I don't push it it doesn't plug. I bale with a New Holland #67 baler and it does real well with the Tractors I have, it will plug if you feed hay too fast, again back to lighter windrows. It is easier to increase ground speed for light windrows than clutch constantly in heavy rows. I have found it quite economical if you don't mind the work.

Good luck!

[Hobby Farmer KS]

I have not had a problem with my Ground speed, but make sure your baler has an overriding clutch. I use a Ford 7' sickle bar. Walts tractor on the net has a lot of the ford parts. If I have heavy wind row I just do a lot of Clutching, because the old fords don't have Live PTO's. My Rake has very little to no adjustment, so I am limited on wind row size. What other equipment do you have?

[NEHerdsman]

I'd really think about upgrading the tractor. You can do what you need to do with the 8n, but it's going to get real old, real quick, between the HP, the gearing and the light weight. It won't be good for you or the tractor. The one thing that might save you is if you pick up an older baler with a pony motor (motor on the baler, not PTO driven).

Not saying you can't do it, just that it'll be a lot more work than it has to be. Example - I have e friend who hays her one field for her horses, she has a 600 Ford and NH 467 haybine. Takes her six and a half hours to cut her field. She borrowed my Case 1194 (~45 HP, diesel, live PTO) and a 477 and it took her three hours. A little bit more tractor does a long way...

[Hobby Farmer KS]

I saw one of those balers at my Vet's office. I was pretty cool. The live PTO is a great advantage, this from someone who does not have one. They guy who sold me my tractor has an 800 series with a live PTO and about 45 hp. I was jealous. The Live PTO would help me during baling. On craigs list in Wichita there are some of the higher power fords at $3K to $4K. There was even one for 1800, I don't know why though

[TessiersFarm]

Not to dispute anyones advice but I have a JD 790 with live PTO and I prefer to bale with my old Farmall H, because it has much better visability. If you rake well then the live PTO isn't as important as some people think, I do however think the overrunning coupler is a must, for safety reasons. I only refence ground speed as a way to control the amount of hay going into the pickup. Lower gear will feed less hay at the same RPM. If you don't have a lower gear then clutching becomes nessesary. Lighter windrows will allow higher ground speeds nessesary for the old ford N's

Just my 2 cents

[hay wilson in TX]

20 acres is just not enough hay ground to justify a baler and associated equipment.
Using an 8 or 9 N Ford will work for a 7 ft sickle mower and pull a rake. To pull a baler you will want one with a motor on the baler, to power the baler. Hard to find today. In the 1950's I used an 8 N to pull a NH baler powered by a Wisconsin Air Cooled engine. You do not want to go that route !

I really suggest you fence in that 20 acres and plan to subdivide the 20 acres into 4 to 20 small plots with electric fencing. Then stock it with 4 or 5 stockers and just maybe an old Long Horn cow. Make a pet and conversation piece of the Long Horn and a few dollars off the stockers.

[Hobby Farmer KS]

I bale only about 12 to 15 acres. I have been doing it for only about 4 years. This year it is up to 22. Total investment is about 4500 for tractor, cutter, rake & baler. Maintenance is couple hundred a year. another few hundred for fertilizer. THe fields I cut that are not mine the owners just want it down and let me keep the hay. At best I break even. The smallest I have baled in a season was about 300 bales of brome (1st year). I now do about 800 on the 12. I use most of that for the horses and goats. Brome goes for about $4 a bale. For hobby farmers it is a hobby and probably less expensive than golf with a cart. I do it because I love it. I love being out on the tractor, I love baling my own hay and a job well done. I also am learning a lot. When I moved out here I did not know what a sickle was, now I know too much about it. You won't make any money, you'll probably break even or a little better, if you don't engoy it it will not be worth it. I hope this helps

[mlappin]

Gotta agree with wilson on this one. Fence it off and pasture it. We have our pastures cut into 2 acre lots.

As strange as the weather has been the last several years, unless a person can devote all their time to it, even 20 acres can be next to impossible to make correctly if your at work when something needs done, or have to leave for work when something is almost ready to be done.

For example, a neighbor makes more custom hay than he makes for himself. He should consider himself lucky I suppose as unlike most people, he's working more hours than he wants the last few months. Works six days a week, 12 hour days, on call the 7th day. I just made the 1st cutting for somebody he normally makes hay for. 1st cutting in August, shoulda just mowed it, then blown it back on the field with a chopper.

Anyways, I've worked 1st and 2nd shift in the past. Either shift is horrible for getting anything done with hay in a timely manner. On 1st shift when I should have been mowing or tedding, was at work, on second shift when I should have been raking or baling, had to leave for work. Third shift might work for hay production if you can live on on next to nothing for sleep.

[Dave5264]

Did my first haying this year. Here's what I can share:

I have a new Montana 5264, 52hp 4wd -- its a UTB Romainian made -- same as the old Universal, basic 60's tech and I went for as much HP and 4wd as I could get for my $.

I bought a used NH 479 haybine/conditioner, a used 60's NH side Rake, a used NH 310 Sq baler

The Montana had no problem powerng the equipment, I honestly dont know much about your 8n tractor and power output.

Initially I was a bit intimidated by the whole thing to be honest. I have over 75 acres, so I slected the best 25 acres to cut, and Baled 1/2 of it (thats all I need just now).

Try the equipment before you get the the field !

I tried the baler, but too late. I got a jam (old twine not cleaned out of the knotters) and it took me 4 days to fix it.
I tried the Hay bine, but the day I planned to cut, and found I needed a PTO shaft extension !

Make sure you read the bine and baler manuals and understand them. I read them but didnt understand them until it came time to fix them, then I had to really learn them front to back.

Get used to the sounds the Bine and Baler make, its a bit of a clatter initially, but you get used to it and you'll be able to tell after a while if something doesnt sound right. I dont wear ear protection because I want to hear whats going on with tractor and equipment.

you either need to start or end your cut with a counter clockwise cut around the field to get to the edges. Personally, I did it at the end, It was my first year and controling where the bine was cutting was easier once the rest of the field was cut.

I raked in the same direction as I cut, and baled in the same direction too.

If the wind-rows are too small (ie if you gut a fairly sparse section of field), rake 2 rows together, the bales will be more firm with a consistent feed.

learning when the hay was "Dry enough" was just reading and checking as best I know how (time will tell if im right). I cut on Day 1, let Dry Day 2, Raked Day 3 late morning and Baled in the afternoon of Day 3. I cut after the dew was gone and raked after the dew was gone.

If you have clover in your Hay, I found it takes 3 days to dry it well.

the weather network drove me nuts, looking for 3 days of sun in a row, some times you gamble and win, sometimes not. with 20 acres, you should be able to wait for 3 days of sun and maybe do the cutting in 2 or 3 intervals ?

The small things make a difference...., one broken tooth on my hay bine was the source of a few clogs on one side of the bine. go over the equipment before and after each use. Keep a few spare cutting teeth and guards etc just in case.

Grease an and oil regularly on the haybine. baler etc. -- dont let this slide, buy a case of grease

dont carry the greas gun in the bucket of the tractor....when it falls out in a 20 acre field, it will not be easy to find when you look for it (ask me how I know). you dont want to find it with a baler .

clean the equipment after you use it, and when its done for the season, clean it so you can eat off it.

Take it slow, (ie dont be in a rush), stay safe !. Takes a bit of practice cutting without leaving strips of uncut grass in the corners, but its all part of the fun.

Buy good twine, I stayed with the stuff the prior baler owner used, it seemed ok. But i know there is stuff out there where the thickness varies alot and gives all kinds of grief.

I got lots of advice from the forums, and had little opportunity to learn form someone else, So I just did it.

Edited by Dave5264, 17 August 2010 - 11:56 AM.

[Sparks]

I started with just 4 arces and I am now up to about 60arces. I am also young and new like you are. I have about three hay seasons under my belt. I think you need to start off small so you dont waste a lot of hay if something breaks. I use a vermeer 605 F , a Nh 56 rake and a IH 1300 sickle bar mower. My tractors are a 706 IH and a Mahrin. 4110. Find a old man to help you they like to talk and they used your older stuff when it was new so they have the information to fix it. Get some basic spare parts you need it when it breaks in the field. On your sickle bar mower make sure your rock gaurds are beat down close to the teeth and the ledger plates are sharp. I changed mine out to double combine rock guards it worked great (old man told me to do it). And loosen the top link just a bit to make the rock guard tilt up just a bit to miss the rats nest and it will go pretty good. Remember this stuff cut lots of hay a long time before any of the expensive new stuff was out. You cant make money cutting small hay with payments. Also get the book Small Scale Haymaking by Spencer Yost it is a good guide. I kept it close during hay season and write the tips the old men tell me in it. They will not always tell you the right way untill you mess it up they want you to learn from it. They think it is funny. The last bit of advise My nieghbor told me If farming ever beats you just once you done no matter how hot or how mad dont let it beat you. Have a good time with it. Joey Hiddenspringsok@gmail.com

[lewbest]

<<snip>> Also get the book Small Scale Haymaking by Spencer Yost it is a good guide. <<snip>> Joey Hiddenspringsok@gmail.com

Where can I get this book? Do you have contact info for Spencer? I know he owns the ATIS or SEL list (maybe both?); if you don't have contact info maybe I can get it there.

Lew

[Sparks]

I got it at tractor supply in miami, ok. I am sure amazon.com might have. The back of the book has Voyageur Press Bookstore on it or 1-800-826-6600. Hope this helps.

[lewbest]

I'll checit out; gotta go to TSC tomorrow for chicken feed anyway

Lew

[Sparks]

Did you find the book?