newbi needs lots of help
Posted 12 May 2010 - 11:04 PM
been looking for a real farmer for advice for some time now
hope someone can help
i'm looking to bail hay for my personal use on about 20 acres
have a 8n tractor that needs a little work
my question, will this tractor be big enough to do the job and if so what other equipment should i be looking for if not where to go from here
Posted 13 May 2010 - 05:38 AM
highly unlikely you'll be able to produce roll bales with a tractor that size. I'm unexperienced myself in anything other than 5x6 round bales which take my 80hp tractor to run.
our old square baler makes my 50hp work a little.
wait for someone else to chime in on the baler, but i think the 8n isn't going to be able to do much.
- norm likes this
Posted 13 May 2010 - 10:44 AM
It would be helpful to know the region, terrain, and field density. You will need a lot more power to bale 7' hay than 2'.
I have used a Ford NAA which is basically an 8n with a slightly larger motor and 4-speed.
The main limitation of the old Ford tractors is gearing, not hp. You cannot hardly go slow enough to properly cut and bale. This results in lugging the motor where it has less power and is more prone to overheating. I will never buy a tractor with that high of gearing again.
In very heavy hay going up the slightest hill I had BARELY enough power for a NH489 - I think about a 9ft cut. So buy the smallest and lightest haybine you can get. Sickle mowers take no power but clog up constantly and take forever to cut.
Raking takes no power and many around here that run giant tractors still use an 8n for raking.
The NH 269 baler will be no problem for that tractor. However, if the hay is heavy you will get very good at pushing in the clutch, snicking it into neutral, and letting out the clutch again to eat up a clot of hay. This is because the 8n does not have a "live" pto which means when you push in the clutch the pto stops. A live pto allows you to push in the clutch and stop the tractor but the pto keeps going eating up the hay.
To make an 8n really work well you need one of the auxiliary crawler gears that was an option. This will enable you to go slow enough to avoid the whole neutral thing and give you plenty of power in heavy hay or hilly terrain. My IH has a 4-speed with a low-range and I still can barely go slow enough in heavy hay (6'+ brome).
Ultimately, I think you will end up buying a slightly more modern tractor with a live pto such as an IH424,464 or a later Ford. The smaller 4-cylinder IH tractors are sized like an 8n but are WAY burlier (being a design from the 60' instead of the 30's). Of course the Cub is junk. Around here they practically give the IH stuff away. I paid $1200 for a 73 gasser with low hrs. The downside is the nearest IH dealer is a ways away. So there is a trade-off to everything.
If you get in a bind, consider having a neighbor do the hay for a percentage of the crop. He will do it right since he will be using it, it will cost you no $$, and there is a certain satisfaction to sipping tea in the shade while he does endless circles around the field in the hot sun!
- norm likes this
Posted 13 May 2010 - 12:57 PM
looking to do 2 or 3 cuts a year so would imagine that it should not be more then 2or3 feet but quite thick as for the neighbor great idea but looking forward to getting my hands dirty
again thank you
Posted 07 August 2010 - 03:52 PM
Posted 08 August 2010 - 04:05 PM
Posted 08 August 2010 - 08:51 PM
Posted 08 August 2010 - 09:48 PM
Posted 11 August 2010 - 09:17 AM
Not saying you can't do it, just that it'll be a lot more work than it has to be. Example - I have e friend who hays her one field for her horses, she has a 600 Ford and NH 467 haybine. Takes her six and a half hours to cut her field. She borrowed my Case 1194 (~45 HP, diesel, live PTO) and a 477 and it took her three hours. A little bit more tractor does a long way...
Posted 11 August 2010 - 10:51 AM
Posted 11 August 2010 - 07:31 PM
Just my 2 cents
Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:41 PM
Using an 8 or 9 N Ford will work for a 7 ft sickle mower and pull a rake. To pull a baler you will want one with a motor on the baler, to power the baler. Hard to find today. In the 1950's I used an 8 N to pull a NH baler powered by a Wisconsin Air Cooled engine. You do not want to go that route !
I really suggest you fence in that 20 acres and plan to subdivide the 20 acres into 4 to 20 small plots with electric fencing. Then stock it with 4 or 5 stockers and just maybe an old Long Horn cow. Make a pet and conversation piece of the Long Horn and a few dollars off the stockers.
Posted 11 August 2010 - 11:04 PM
Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:03 AM
As strange as the weather has been the last several years, unless a person can devote all their time to it, even 20 acres can be next to impossible to make correctly if your at work when something needs done, or have to leave for work when something is almost ready to be done.
For example, a neighbor makes more custom hay than he makes for himself. He should consider himself lucky I suppose as unlike most people, he's working more hours than he wants the last few months. Works six days a week, 12 hour days, on call the 7th day. I just made the 1st cutting for somebody he normally makes hay for. 1st cutting in August, shoulda just mowed it, then blown it back on the field with a chopper.
Anyways, I've worked 1st and 2nd shift in the past. Either shift is horrible for getting anything done with hay in a timely manner. On 1st shift when I should have been mowing or tedding, was at work, on second shift when I should have been raking or baling, had to leave for work. Third shift might work for hay production if you can live on on next to nothing for sleep.
Posted 17 August 2010 - 11:54 AM
I have a new Montana 5264, 52hp 4wd -- its a UTB Romainian made -- same as the old Universal, basic 60's tech and I went for as much HP and 4wd as I could get for my $.
I bought a used NH 479 haybine/conditioner, a used 60's NH side Rake, a used NH 310 Sq baler
The Montana had no problem powerng the equipment, I honestly dont know much about your 8n tractor and power output.
Initially I was a bit intimidated by the whole thing to be honest. I have over 75 acres, so I slected the best 25 acres to cut, and Baled 1/2 of it (thats all I need just now).
Try the equipment before you get the the field !
I tried the baler, but too late. I got a jam (old twine not cleaned out of the knotters) and it took me 4 days to fix it.
I tried the Hay bine, but the day I planned to cut, and found I needed a PTO shaft extension !
Make sure you read the bine and baler manuals and understand them. I read them but didnt understand them until it came time to fix them, then I had to really learn them front to back.
Get used to the sounds the Bine and Baler make, its a bit of a clatter initially, but you get used to it and you'll be able to tell after a while if something doesnt sound right. I dont wear ear protection because I want to hear whats going on with tractor and equipment.
you either need to start or end your cut with a counter clockwise cut around the field to get to the edges. Personally, I did it at the end, It was my first year and controling where the bine was cutting was easier once the rest of the field was cut.
I raked in the same direction as I cut, and baled in the same direction too.
If the wind-rows are too small (ie if you gut a fairly sparse section of field), rake 2 rows together, the bales will be more firm with a consistent feed.
learning when the hay was "Dry enough" was just reading and checking as best I know how (time will tell if im right). I cut on Day 1, let Dry Day 2, Raked Day 3 late morning and Baled in the afternoon of Day 3. I cut after the dew was gone and raked after the dew was gone.
If you have clover in your Hay, I found it takes 3 days to dry it well.
the weather network drove me nuts, looking for 3 days of sun in a row, some times you gamble and win, sometimes not. with 20 acres, you should be able to wait for 3 days of sun and maybe do the cutting in 2 or 3 intervals ?
The small things make a difference...., one broken tooth on my hay bine was the source of a few clogs on one side of the bine. go over the equipment before and after each use. Keep a few spare cutting teeth and guards etc just in case.
Grease an and oil regularly on the haybine. baler etc. -- dont let this slide, buy a case of grease
dont carry the greas gun in the bucket of the tractor....when it falls out in a 20 acre field, it will not be easy to find when you look for it (ask me how I know). you dont want to find it with a baler .
clean the equipment after you use it, and when its done for the season, clean it so you can eat off it.
Take it slow, (ie dont be in a rush), stay safe !. Takes a bit of practice cutting without leaving strips of uncut grass in the corners, but its all part of the fun.
Buy good twine, I stayed with the stuff the prior baler owner used, it seemed ok. But i know there is stuff out there where the thickness varies alot and gives all kinds of grief.
I got lots of advice from the forums, and had little opportunity to learn form someone else, So I just did it.
Edited by Dave5264, 17 August 2010 - 11:56 AM.
- Rosso likes this
Posted 01 October 2010 - 01:54 PM
Posted 01 October 2010 - 11:24 PM
<<snip>> Also get the book Small Scale Haymaking by Spencer Yost it is a good guide. <<snip>> Joey Hiddenspringsok@gmail.com
Where can I get this book? Do you have contact info for Spencer? I know he owns the ATIS or SEL list (maybe both?); if you don't have contact info maybe I can get it there.
Posted 02 October 2010 - 10:08 PM
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