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Baler knotters

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#1 farmboy9510


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Posted 29 July 2009 - 06:45 PM

This has been a question on my mind for years and years. I never had anyone to ask that new the answer to it. How does a knotter on a small square baler work I ask this question for two different reasons # 1its a curiousity thing. #2 if i can better under stand the way a knotter works mabey i'll know what to do the next time the knotter screws up.
Any information would be appreciated.

thank you


#2 nwfarmer


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Posted 29 July 2009 - 09:59 PM

I always kind of wondered that myself. Plus I have always wondered how someone thought up the original knotter design. They must have had lots of time to think while they were in their tractor.

#3 rank


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Posted 29 July 2009 - 10:20 PM

One day I sat up top while someone else drove the baler but things happened so fast I missed lots of what was going on. I always thought I would record it with a video camera and then play it back in slow motion. The video could really help solve knotting problems down the road.



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Posted 30 July 2009 - 07:05 AM

To get a better understanding just cut the tractor off and get someone to roll the fly wheel, Trip the baler and you can watch it tie in slow motion.

#5 bunchgrass1



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Posted 30 July 2009 - 11:26 AM

[QUOTE][Plus I have always wondered how someone thought up the original knotter design. They must have had lots of time to think while they were in their tractor. /QUOTE]

I think that knotters were used all the way back in the horse drawn grain binder days. Even more of a miracle when you think of that.

#6 Chessiedog


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Posted 30 July 2009 - 08:40 PM

this is kinda a short version needle brings up the string to the twine holder,twine holder then turns , then the knife arm comes across cuts the twine pulls the twine over it self that's in the bill hook making a knot . I'm sure some one can give a much more detailed description. on a NH anyway. went to a small Sq baler work shop was very informative .The NH rep had a old NH film showing it all very close and in very slow motion was pretty cool really. He said the knotters had changed very little since the guy had come up with the idea.

#7 mlappin


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Posted 30 July 2009 - 11:25 PM

To get a better understanding just cut the tractor off and get someone to roll the fly wheel, Trip the baler and you can watch it tie in slow motion.

Agree. This is really the only way to see whats happening if your missing a knot for less than obvious reasons.

#8 hayray


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Posted 09 August 2009 - 03:58 PM

The metering wheel that gauges the bale length reachs the set distance and then trips the knotter and needle clutch which will bring the needles up in the knotter head and turn the drive cam gears that turn each knotter. As the needles come up they place a string in the twin disk which turns a partial turn and moves the twin against the twin holder, which is the three flanged thing that is meshed in to the twin disk. Then you have the start for hay to be pushed by the plunger to the back of the bale chamber where the two strings already threaded into the twin disk will hold the back of the hay to start to form a bale.
When the metering wheel reaches the desired setting for bale length the knotter clutch will then be engage again and this sends a second set of twin into the twin disk which are wrapped around the front of the bale. This second set of twin is held into the disk with the twin holder. Now you have two strands of twin in each knotter. At the same time the twine fingers which are laying flat against the deck underneath the knotters slide across the deck and pull the twin in the way of the rotating bill hook which with jaws open grabs both strands of twin that are in the twin disk, then the knife arm swings across and rubs the bottom edge of the bill hook and wipes the loop of twin off the bill hook because when the bill hook rotated it wrapped a double loop of twin around itself while also grabbing the ends of the twin that are in the twin disk. While the knife arm wraps this loop off the bill hook the jaws of the hook hold the ends while the loop is slide over the bill hook, this essentially creats the knot by having the effect of pulling two ends of twin through a loop. At the tail end of the knife arm is the twin knife that will cut off the two ends free from the twine disk and the pressure of the bale pulls the knot free and forms a simple double looped knot. Massey Ferguson had a different type of knotter I remember that when I had my MF 124 baler years ago. But this description is your basic McCormick knotter.

#9 Barry Bowen

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 06:10 PM

New Holland had a really good video of knotters for sales etc. If you local dealer can get it, you will be amazed how they actually work. JD manuals (this is all I own for balers) have a great diagnostic section for looking at the twine and telling you what is going wrong.

#10 lincoln10


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Posted 23 November 2009 - 09:33 PM

I thought a brief Video of the Krone Double Knotter would show how the knotter components work. The 1st knot is tied by the needle, the 2nd knot is pulled into place with the twine finger. On a small square the twine is always held in the twine disc, so there is no need for the roller on the top of the needle.

Krone Double Knotter picture by Cutrakeandbale - Photobucket

Edited by lincoln10, 23 November 2009 - 09:49 PM.
link didn't work

#11 NEHerdsman


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Posted 24 November 2009 - 06:53 AM

Came across these a while ago, they're for a JD, but they all work basically the same...
  • sedurbin and pitotshock like this

#12 tom burlingham

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 10:24 AM

John Appleby invented the knotter drive system that is still used today. A civil war vet, he was hired by Cyrus McCormick to adapt his invention to the binder. He got $6.00 in royalty for each binder sold.There is a stone marker on hwy 12, 10 miles east of whitewater wi. on the farm where he grew up.

#13 Cannon


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Posted 25 November 2009 - 06:07 PM

Thanks tom, I never new these facts before. Thanks for enlightenment!

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